In this episode, David Folwell, President of StaffingHub, talks with Robert Mann, Enterprise Account Manager for EmployStream, on the radical effects of the COVID-19 pandemic on the staffing industry. They chat about the rise in unemployment, the changing role of technology, and how to reach out to your audience in these strange times.

David: Welcome to another episode of The Staffing Show. I’m excited to have Rob Mann on the call today with me. He’s a long-time staffing industry veteran. He’s an enterprise account manager for EmployStream and also the founder and creator of Automation Weekly, which is a podcast and YouTube channel that can be found online. And with that, let me pass it over to Rob for a quick introduction.

Rob: David, thank you. Really excited to be on. Obviously, as the host of a podcast, or actually host of a channel, Automation Weekly is more of a channel on YouTube to discuss staffing technology, but we are launching a podcast April 15th. We’re recording this on the 7th, and we’re pretty excited. It’s going to be called the You Own the Experience podcast. It’s going to focus on people and technology. So, just out here creating a lot of content, trying to support the staffing industry and tell the story about how powerful we are as an industry, as well as the technology that supports us as well.

David: Fantastic. Fantastic. And to start off today we’re going to be talking about a few different things. Going over some automation, talking about candidate experience, especially touching on referrals. But I think top of the mind for almost every business in the world right now is what’s going on with COVID 19. How are you responding to the global pandemic? And I guess to start off, just since did a webinar on this last week and I thought it was useful,  how are you seeing COVID 19 and the pandemic impact your business and how is EmployStream responding to what’s going on right now?

Rob: One of the things I’m excited about that EmployStream doing with the virus right now is actually helping one of our large healthcare customers who, enterprise-sized, already going through implementation with EmployStream but came to us and want to expand their remote I9 capabilities because they have a bunch of branches that were basically shut down because they’re relying on travel nurses coming in to the branch to show their vacation documents. So they had to get their passport or their license. Physically inspected. Through EmployStream, we have a tool that allows for someone, a third party, someone you’re living with or your roommate or neighbor that you may be quarantined with, can review those, and then take a picture of them or submit them into the EmployStream app as we can have a point solution to help some that remote I9 pc. 

Other additions that I think you should know, the USCIS who covered CI9 relaxed the regulations so now you can observe those documents like the license and passport  I just mentioned on a Zoom call or video chat and just keep record of how you inspected those documents. So it was pretty exciting. I was actually talking to other really large top 5 Staffing Company in the world about delivering a solution like that as well for 2020. 

So pretty excited about that. You know, to help. To get those travel nurses to work as well as other essential workers. Just pretty excited to be able to take part. 

David: It’s been tough seeing the different verticals being impacted. And one of the things that even in the verticals that are doing well, I’ve heard of concerns. I think there’s a lot of opportunity within all of this if navigated correctly, but even with some of the verticals that are moving forward quickly or have giant increase and need for labor especially the clinical side, then there’s the cash flow situation in terms will hospitals be able to pay in a timely manner. What’s going on there? I know hospitals are losing money. I’ve heard losing up to if not more than a thousand dollars per COVID patient and not doing elective operations at the moment.

So even when there’s opportunity, there’s still some risk, but definitely good to at least see some of the verticals that are moving forward. With that do you have… I know you’re working closely with staffing firms across different verticals. Are you hearing of any specific I guess tactics or strategies. Anything that you’ve heard of that’s working well in terms of how they’re managing either their team or how they’re doing outreach to candidates during this time?

Rob: Nothing specific in terms of outreach. I think managing their business is definitely the biggest. Honestly we probably can’t say that enough on a podcast recorded during a pandemic right? But definitely hearing a lot of really good stories in terms of hiring and people making the best of the situation in terms of talking to candidates because the workforce has not grown necessarily, but the available workforce has grown obviously with 10 million over the last three weeks and that’s not including this week and we’re two days in. Going to unemployment. Health care offices are furloughing their workers early, the administrative side so they can get in the employment line because they’ll have a job when they come back. So they… people aren’t particularly unemployed. For the metric, is that 10 million really an accurate number or is it just furloughed employees who are working for very strategic employers? Maybe the way to think about it.

But I think for the long term gain, people that are doing it the right way are going to I guess come out ahead more or less. They have better candidates to talk to and then they’re going to be able to sell that story to their customers and make sure that their customers are going to be better serviced I guess.

David: Yeah, and just to add to that, one thing we’re seeing and hearing from a lot of companies is if you’re not I think being empathetic in this time and if you’re not recognizing where we’re at and trying to use the same sales or marketing approach, I think it can very easily make your company sound tone deaf and it can frustrate some people. I’ve heard some stories from people that have had emails that went out that were just their normal kind of follow up emails, but maybe they’re automated. And normally they get a decent response, instead they’re getting a customer service style from it. So I think it’s more important than ever to at least recognize where we’re at and what we’re all going through collectively.

Rob: Yeah, I mean, I 100% agree. I think that’s a really great talking point in terms of automation, right? So marketed automation is great, but the emails, the text messages going out and the cadence is really important. And I think telling stories about your brand right now is really important. But what makes automation really powerful is the human element around it. And if you’re not tying and wrapping the human element around a marketing email, like the timing. Being empathetic at this point, not just trying to generally sell. It’s going to really come off that you sound tone-deaf and that ruins… one that one email can ruin years upon years of positive marketing. So the really… people always worry about automation being impersonal, but I think having your email messages and your marketing campaign, being human is way more powerful when you tie it with the automation. And that’s really what my podcast, the You and Me Experience podcast, was going to be about. How to tie those things together.

David: That’s funny. I heard a story from an employee at Zoom who had an automated email that went out and got cuss words back from a customer. They were just asking if they wanted to test out their remote video conferencing tool. Which right now that actually feels like it’s timely, just timely, but still, I think it’s key to recognize where we’re at. So why don’t you tell me a little bit specifically about how EmployStream helps with automation and just kind of some of the ways that it’s being used during this time.

Rob: Yeah, so if I were to do the quick elevator pitch about EmployStream the idea would be to have a mobile-friendly, desktop-friendly onboarding experience for your candidates, but also for your internal staff, right? So your internal staff doesn’t necessarily have to come in contact with your 1099 or W2 to put them to work because you can validate an I9 or I9 documentation remotely. You get a picture of it or you can now because of the relaxed rules by the UCIS, or UCISC or whatever it is, you can just take a video of it. So you can video chat and validate the documents.

So, what’s really powerful about EmployStream is if you’re attached to an ATS, it’s going to prefill the documents, it’s going to send them out automatically. So your team can be remote. You don’t need to go to someone and be like hey, can you send Sally these, the I9’s and also the hiring agreement for this, and this, and this. All that stuff is prefilled and sent. And then, the background checks once you complete a form, it gets sent to the background check provided that you’re working with. The results come back into the portal, the I9 verification is automatic, and then again, you don’t have to come in contact with a notary. Or some of them you’re not generally going to come in contact with, right? So if I’m isolating or I’m in quarantining with my wife, if I needed her to validate employee documentation, I could just have her get an email sent from EmployStream that says hey, can you validate these documents.

The governing body doesn’t necessarily recommend that they use something other, but it can be as long as there’s a really powerful audit trail and you can see the documents clearly. So some of us physically have to inspect the documents. There is a little bit of loosening, but we make it so that it’s a pretty powerful remote experience and you don’t have to come in contact with someone that you’re not sheltering in a place with at the moment.

David: Yeah, it feels like with the advent of this pandemic, indeed we’re all using more remote tools, remember that having mobile onboarding, the ability to have contact lists, the new term with everything. Contact list onboarding seems more powerful than ever. Have you guys seen any increase in business because of the pandemic or how is it directly impacting you guys? Do you know?

Rob: So directly… I’ll give you one quick story. So we were in implementation with a very large healthcare staffing company. I’m not going to give you any more detail than that , but they are going live with a new ATS, they’re going live with EmployStream and they have six brands. We had one brand live. We had the biggest brand getting ready to go, starting implementation and getting into that process. But they have another company that’s travel nursing and they have branches all over the US. The nurses will come into the branch and show their ID’s. And so we had a spin up over the course of two weeks for all of their branch locations, this remote I9 solution. So just kind of give them a point solution as part of the larger project. So we’re still managing this massive onboarding project for this really large customer, but we’ve delivered a point solution for them.

And then we are in talks with one of the big four staffing companies to help deliver a remote I9 so they’re set for 2020. So really, it’s really about that I9 that we’re seeing a lot of opportunities for growth currently. As you can imagine because people have to be remote and all the other solutions require you to essentially come in contact with a notary. And one of my prospects that I was working with before I transitioned over was actually talking about the fact that notaries don’t know how to use the platform either. And so them uploading the documents that they took a picture of wasn’t going very smoothly either. So as long as those directions are clear about what to do with the documents that you’re reviewing or inspecting, it’s a great solution. That’s something that we’ve been working on and trying to make very transparent for the person. Because we’re now asking non HR people to be essentially HR people in this kind of contactless time, right?

David: Yeah, absolutely. And one thing you and I talked about, not on this podcast, but other conversations that we’ve had is the candidate experience, where things are going on that front. Why don’t you tell me a little bit I guess about how… What you see as the future of the candidate experience and so any best practices related to the candidate experience from your perspective.

Rob: Well, I mean, I think this… I kind of live by the couple things, right? Like I love the quote “if you train them well enough they’re going to stay, and if you treat your employees really well, they’re going to treat your customers really well.” So I think staffing firms that focus on the customer experience first being your team, internal team, is going to be really valid, really powerful, so that they can deliver an incredible experience for your customers. And then through that, you’re going into technology, right? So making sure that you can stay in front of them. You got to think about the key points where people complain. One they apply for a job, they don’t hear back, right? So just kind of having empathy around that process, right? And then they get submitted to a job, they don’t hear back. Making sure there’s some communication around there.

But then if they’re a contractor, and you’re going to be the employer record, making sure that the experience is smooth. Not only for the candidate, but also for your internal team, right? So can you create an incredible experience for everyone involved on the administrative side. And I think that’s where automation comes in. And you can see instead of having five passwords and log ins to five different systems to do your background check, do your verify, do your paperwork, right? You’re just going to have one portal, or just one link that sends you to a place or a portal where you can complete the documents. The documents, the background check, information, so on. And I think that’s really going to be a powerful experience.

But I think focusing on communication and how communication goes throughout the entire cycle. We have this big circle that we talk about in EmployStream, right? Because in onboarding, if you think about recruiting, the recruiter and the account manager deal with one part of it and then you have an admin that deals with the paperwork part of it, right? Especially for physician staffing or travel nursing. You go to compliance or credentialing. And if you can make it a really seamless process in that entire circle, right? So if they’re going from the recruiter and the account manager to the admin team, seamlessly with as little clicks, logging in, passwords, usernames as possible so you create a really great experience. So then you’re going to save your team time.

Because not to reference this podcast, but I really love that episode with Maurice Fuller when he was talking about everyone is in customer service, right? And staffing is going to become more customer service focused right? So if you can do the entire front office part of the staffing for somebody in the recruiting job without coming in contact with a human, then all you’re doing is fielding inbound service requests like the technology surrounding it has to be great and the people surrounding that technology have to be great too.

David: Yeah, I completely agree with all of that. And I think that moving towards a seamless process for candidates, I think of the companies that are figuring out how to do log in or apply with a social media or your google and having that be your process to get to all of your information at a time. Seeing the steps at where you’re at in your application process and even having updates as you move through the process so candidates can see what’s happening. I think there’s going to be a big shift to that over time. We’re seeing that requested for the staffing and referrals platform, but even seeing that on websites when somebody applies, they want to know what’s the status and know that it’s being… There are aspects of things are moving behind the scenes and that they didn’t just put their resume out into the resume black hole.

What I’ve actually… I don’t know if that’s still accurate, but I remember a few years ago that the average time that a recruiter spent looking at a resume was somewhere around three seconds. And I don’t remember the exact response rate on it, but I think it was somewhere in the under ten percent of resumes ever received any response for a yes or no. So I think even just be kinder. The response of hey, you didn’t make the cut this time, but make it into something that’s… I think at the end of the day it comes down to just making sure, communicating directly and accurately with candidates throughout the entire experience and giving them more transparency through the process so they feel like they’re part of it.

Rob: I couldn’t agree more. There’s a video out there called the break up to make up video and using automation to send a hey, this one isn’t right for you, but here’s what else I have. Or let me know how your process is going. It’s really that communication which really builds on empathy always at the end of the day.

David: Yeah, we’ve actually, we do some recruiter interviews as well and one story to your point, I like that, the break up or make up, we actually had a recruiter who was top in referrals for one of our clients and said that they… He was getting more referrals from candidates that didn’t start in a position than from the people that actually worked from him, that ended up working for him or going on contract. And it was simply that he’d call and say hey, I wanted to know if you’d go through an interview, whatever the process was. They’d say you know what, this isn’t the right fit for me right now, and say no big deal. If you happen to know anybody I’ll shoot you a link and you can refer somebody. And he was actually driving more referrals through I guess called the break up part of the interview.

Rob: Break up to make up.

David: Yeah, than he was through the on contract people. So there’s interesting opportunities when you look at if somebody spent the time to apply for a job with your company, they are expecting to hear back from you. And I think there’s opportunity there through automation as you’re talking about to make sure you’re sending a message that one, adds value to them, makes them feel better about where they’re at, and then potentially helps with your business in the end as well.

Rob: Yeah. I agree 100%. I don’t want to harp on this too much, but I was just thinking. The COVID, negative experience, right? Negative overall situation for us. Not having the right job, negative experience for that candidate, but if you can deliver bad news or work through bad things, you build a more authentic relationship, right? So that’s why you probably get more referrals from having that hard conversation about this job’s not right for you. But maybe staffing firms need to be training their recruiters when they start to have those hard conversations and teach them the power of that authentic connection with that candidate to drive more referrals, right?

David: Yeah, absolutely man. That’s one of the next questions I was going to ask you was actually talking about what opportunities within this pandemic, and to your point, I know it’s a hard time for all of us in many ways. If nothing else just emotionally through social distancing. I know we’re all going through the stages of it. It feels almost like stages of grieving. It’s like watching people kind of cycle through it and I know even the best of us or the strongest or have moments that we’re just kind of thinking man, I can believe this is where we’re at, but what opportunities do you see appearing or from a staffing or business perspective or even just on a personal perspective, what opportunities do you see coming from this?

Rob: Kind of berating the point of just empathy and using that empathy to connect deeper to tell your brand’s story. I think that one is huge. And I think the… I think it’s funny. People, I keep seeing on LinkedIn, a lot of marketing and BD people getting furloughed or let go and those are really, really powerful people when you need a story told, right? So if… Obviously they’re direct relation to revenue is not even the easiest to see, but when you’re not going to have a ton of sales, but you’re going to have a lot of time for people to ingest content and be able to understand who you are as a brand and what you’re trying to do and your why.

So EmployStream started from a staffing company. And that staffing company put us to work at an industrial site and one of the contractors didn’t get a background check and that background check… That candidate, they wanted to bring him perm. So they ran their own background check. Had a felony and that staffing firm lost their contract. Maybe a million dollar contract, right? And so that’s EmployStream’s why. Why it was created.

Rob: So if you can do that and connect, people have more time to ingest that why now and really pay attention to it. So I think it’s really a miss if you’re not telling your story. And so it’s kind of a connection, authenticity, negative stuff allows you to have that and kind of connect with it deeper. I don’t know, but I’m kind of preferential to story tellers and marketing. Sorry, I might be biased, but I think that’s a really powerful thing at this point and what’s going to bring you out of this faster when we do get to that point.

David: Yeah, I agree with that and I also think from a business and personal perspective that there’s an aspect of where we’re seeing one, where we’ve all shifted how we’re communicating and I’ve never had more Zoom video calls in my entire life or thought that… I never thought I’d be on Zoom calls with my family, but that’s now a thing, too. So it’s like everybody’s embraced Zoom. I actually saw it was the number one most downloaded app a couple of weeks ago on the apple marketplace which is amazing to think that what was originally a business tool and still thought of as a business tool in any of the consumer market, that’s why.

I think the area where I think is probably the opportunity for businesses and individuals like, I do feel that we’re connecting on a deeper level and a lot of us are… We’re opening up our homes through Zoom. You’re getting the… Some people are kind of getting the MTV Cribz walk around of houses. I’ve had that happen a couple of times. I do feel like people through these challenges are more apt to kind of open up and have real dialogue about who they are and kind of what’s going on and what their challenges are. So my hope is that the connections that we’re building now, the friendliness that you do see. If you go for a run, I’m getting more waves than I normally would in Denver, Colorado. So I’m hoping that that empathy sticks with us as kind of a long term gain for everybody after going through this pandemic.

Rob: Yeah, I’m definitely making a point to wave and say hello to everyone even though I’m like six to 12 feet apart from them and just sometimes I’m wearing a mask because I’m in Miami and I’m like hey, I’m not a crazy person. I’m a… And it’s a headband, so I’m wearing a headband as a mask. Like a workout headband. I haven’t got my mask in yet. And I just think that there’s an incredible opportunity to be connected and I think you’re right. I think people need to be focused on that and as hard as it is, connection is really what makes us a tribe, right?

Like if this is the hardest part about being quarantined away from everybody is that we’re actually a social animal or whatever we are. Not to get too crazy, but I think the… And the worse circumstances get, the better humans get as a group. So the best comes out of it when we’re challenged like this. So it’s good to see maybe… Obviously better circumstances always, but I think that’s always, tribe is a really powerful thing.

I don’t know if you’ve ever read the book Tribe, but the people in the bombing lock downs in the UK during world war two always wanted to go back to those times because they thought that was the best of humanity and the best of those groups that they were in. Always wanted to relive that. Because that’s when people were really good to each other. They weren’t too busy for each other and they weren’t connecting on a real level, so. We kind of repeat the same mistakes, we’ll get out of this, we’ll forget about it, and then we’ll move on to being jerks to each other, but there’s definitely a real opportunity for connection now.

David: Yeah, no it does feel like people coming together and trying to help each other in these times is pretty cool. I don’t know. Of course I don’t know if you get any of the yells on the balconies down in Miami. I’m getting those at ATM every night here in Denver.

Rob: Yeah, so my… The apartment underneath me, he keels up and he’s like… He gives me an apartment number, he’s like yo, da da da da. I’m like hey what’s up, his apartment number. And that’s how we refer to each other and we have like 3 pm, 4 pm-ish meeting every day. Really interesting about my building, just kind of side note is they had to bicycle lock the doors to our inner courtyard because people would keep sun bathing down there in groups and they weren’t social distancing. So I went down there today and the doors were bike locked. It’s very interesting. We have a pretty bad outbreak down here in Miami and people are in general and they’re still not social distancing, so. I don’t know.

David: Oddly this week that you and I are talking about this could be one of the worst… Is likely to be one of the worst weeks we’ve seen here in America. And I’m hoping that some of the predictions I’ve seen with a peak in mid-April, I’m hoping that that is truly a peak in terms of new cases coming on board. But we shall see. So with that, is there anything else related to EmployStream or podcasts. I mean you have a lot of things going on, a lot of things on your plate and I do appreciate how much you communicate on LinkedIn and what you share. You really do help bring new ideas to the forefront by sharing and bringing all of these videos online. Is there anything else that you’d like to share with our audience today?

Rob: Yeah absolutely. So I think one of the biggest things that I’m always talking about is selling your text back and really what that means. That’s really what the podcast is about, right? There’s people, but there’s technology and how that technology is a differentiator for your brand. And in this period when business might be slowing down, it’s time to get creative and explore what’s available to improve your business. So how can you double down on technology to work on your business, not in it because obviously it’s slow. We’re in a slow period. So if you could develop a technology stack that you can go to market with. And a great example is video interviews. That’s a great example because we’re all doing that right now if we’re still recruiting and hiring. And I think, and you can go and say hey, you don’t have to have three calls with this candidate because the first call that we have with them, the interview for this job, we’re going to send you that video.

So you’re going to see it the first time and then the next time you talk to them, you can have more of a personalized conversation because you already know what they’re going to present. EmployStream I can get your candidates onboard without coming in contact with another human being. People are selling that. Like I can quickly get someone on board. Even in the crisis the new technology stack matters, but I think even you can create a story around how your technology differentiates you once your out of this crisis, you’re going to have a really powerful so you can just get up and going once we can get back to business as usual as it’s going to be, right? I don’t think business as usual is a thing anymore. I think it’s going to be an agile adaptive version once we get out of here, but you really need to double down on your technology or how you’re thinking about it. And it is a differentiator and don’t worry about how much it costs because it’s COVID times, right?

We’re going make more deals, sorry. But I think it’s a really good time to buy. It’s a really good time to think about, a really good time to double down on how you’re thinking about your tech stacks. So I know that sounds self serving, but it’s really not because I’ve worked for firms that were really good with technologies, really bad. And as a millennial I want to work with someone who has good technology because we know we can back up and we can be more powerful and have more hands doing more things very quickly. And you don’t want to be… I don’t know. I think business transformation is going to be rapidly expanded hopefully.

I think it’s going to be rapidly expanded because of this. My west law firm David, couldn’t work remote and now they’re all remote. They figured it out very quickly. So double down, pay attention to technology, sell your text back, figure out what that means. That’s probably my last thing.

David: Yeah,  I couldn’t agree more. What’s actually interesting is I’m seeing a couple different types of what’s almost personas of staffing firms. I think this probably goes across all businesses, but there’s a few that have gone into kind of a hunker down and wait it out and see where it goes and there’s others, another group, a fairly large group that’s going into the this is the opportunity to make changes that we needed to make and to kind of make the implement technology that we talked about and  really figure out how do we leverage… Become the absolute most efficient type of staffing firm that we possibly can during this time while all of this change is happening. And I do think that the chaos, pandemic, all of the things that are going through, it’s creating the opportunity for a lot of change and with that there have been staffing firms that appears to be that are searching for more new technology than ever that are trying to figure it out right now and are trying to figure it out faster.

David: We did a webinar last Friday on COVID specifically from the healthcare industry. And one of the interesting things I heard about when you mentioned your wife’s law firm and how they couldn’t go remote, I’ve heard multiple staffing CEO’s say I never thought we could go remote. Now we’ve been forced to, it’s working. Now I don’t know if we need our offices anymore. So, the one industry that I would be concerned for right now is commercial real estate coming back out of this because I think once all of these companies being forced to go through this process realize, all right. This can be effective. This can be productive and I think that simultaneously those people looking at, all right, well now that I’m remote, how do I manage my team remotely? How do I make sure my team is producing remotely? How do I make sure that all of the emails and messages are going out automatically so that it’s kind of a shift towards and embracing of technology during this time by some.

And I think that any time there’s chaos there’s opportunity and I imagine that I’ve heard this, I wasn’t… I was actually in grad school during the time, but 2008 I know that I’ve heard from a lot of staffing firms. The ones who made moves during that period and that were able to survive came out twice as strong and there was a land grab in terms of market share and I think this might be a similar opportunity. The ones that act intelligently but also aggressively towards change could come out the other side in a very positive way.

Rob: Yeah, I couldn’t agree more and I was just laughing to myself because Soft Egg pulled the plug on their three billion dollar bail out of WeWork. But if you think about from the commercial real estate world, if we’re going to all down size our offices and become more agile,  WeWork is a great solution for an agile workforce. If you have companies that want to downsize our offices, but still have some place professional to go once it’s over, once they need to have the meeting, where are they going to go? I don’t want to go to a region suite, I worked out of one. I’d much rather go home to work. 

I’m just saying anyone on Soft Egg that listens to the Staffing Show may want to reconsider that because everyone is going to downsize their office and there is going to be a lot of real estate for cheap. Commercial space for cheap. 

David: I love it. Love it. Anything else you want to chat about today? Because I really enjoy this conversation and I think this is valuable during these times, these strange times that we live in. Anything else you want to discuss?

Rob: No, I mean, just be able to just… I’m going to reiterate be empathetic and lead with empathy and tell a good story. And let your customers tell stories for you. They have time to do case studies. So go reach out to them and help them explain your story that you’re solving for them to somebody else. That’s about it.

David: You just sparked an idea. I have found this as an opportunity to ask if people are from a software perspective and even from a staffing perspective, being able to get use cases or stories of how people are using your staffing services or your software during this period can be meaningful not only for your business from an internal standpoint, from kind of a motivation standpoint, but really those case studies or story lines are valuable externally as well. And I have to say that I’m very, very grateful to be working in an industry that is helping get people jobs in a time when thousands, millions of people are losing theirs and it’s… hopefully we can help put as many of them back to work as possible.

Rob: Yeah. Feel free to reach out to me, anyone in the staffing industry. Happy to point you at all the resources that people have been sharing with me to help. I still recruit even though I still have staffing software. I still love networking and connecting. I was actually doing a bunch of connecting this morning. I was actually bringing staffing companies in line with cleaning companies and it was great. I love that feeling. And I think that’s why we all get into staffing.

David: Awesome. Well thanks so much again, Rob. Really enjoyed having you on today. We’ll talk soon.

Rob: David, it was an honor. Thank you man.

David: All right, thanks.