In the ever-evolving healthcare staffing industry, one company has managed to thrive for over a decade. Today, we are joined by the founders of CareTeam Solutions, Justin and Kyle Cuviello, to discuss their incredible healthcare staffing firm. Tuning in, you’ll hear all about what led them to this industry, what makes CareTeam unique in their strategy, training, investment, and sales technique, why they are “nurses-first,” and so much more. We delve into what excites them within the industry at the moment and how they’re growing at CareTeam before discussing their interview process. Our guests even share their predictions for the future of healthcare staffing and share advice for anyone wanting to start their own agency. Finally, Justin and Kyle tell us about the best habits and beliefs they’ve incorporated that have led to their success. Thanks for listening in!
[0:01:13] David Folwell: Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining us for another episode of The Staffing Show. Today, I am super excited to be joined by Justin and Kyle Cuviello, who are the co-founders of CareTeam Solutions. Justin, Kyle, thanks so much for being on the show.
[0:01:28] Jason Cuviello: Yeah, thanks for having us.
[0:01:28] Kyle Cuviello: Thank you.
[0:01:29] David Folwell: Well, excited to talk with you guys today because you guys have done something unique in the healthcare staffing spaces. You got two back-to-back years of growth. And I’m excited to hear your story, how CareTeam came about, and kind of jump into some of the things that you guys are doing differently. To start off, I’d love to just talk about how you guys got into healthcare staffing. What’s your story into this industry?
[0:01:51] Justin Cuviello: Yeah, so it’s probably a really unfun story. I don’t know. We had a good friend of ours, became friends with one of his initial investors. And we would do lunch with them and that kind of stuff. And I worked for a couple startups after doing pharmaceutical sales for a couple years. And the startups, I learned a lot of what not to do from them and some things to do, but a lot of what not to do. And I was kind of ready to get back into med sales, pharmaceutical sales, something like that. Started interviewing. And he asked to grab lunch. And then he asked if we wanted to start a healthcare staffing agency. He thought he had a contract he’d be able to pull, and thought we were two young sales guys that had decent heads on our shoulders that he could trust. We had that going.
We didn’t get the mentorship I think we thought we were going to get, but still a solid relationship. So after like two years, we got things going. We ended up buying him out. And then, it was just Kyle and I.
[0:02:45] David Folwell: Awesome. That’s great. And what year did you guys start it?
[0:02:48] Justin Cuviello: It was the very end of 2014.
[0:02:51] David Folwell: Okay. So, been running at it a little bit. And then, guys, you’ve had growth the last two years, which in healthcare staffing is something that we’re not seeing a lot of. Would love to just dig into some of the ways that you guys are operating differently. And also kind of understand how you’re positioning CareTeam and what are some of the kind of the gaps that you were trying to fill when you built the brand.
[0:03:11] Kyle Cuviello: An important note about the growth is, after hearing your stats, is it doesn’t feel good at the time because it’s not monumental growth.
[0:03:19] David Folwell: Yeah. Yeah.
[0:03:20] Kyle Cuviello: We went back and like, “Well, it wasn’t down.” For the industry, that’s not bad.
[0:03:25] David Folwell: Yeah. I bet. And for the audience here, what we’re referencing is the thing I hate to say, but what we hear a lot in staffing these days is flat is the new up, which is not fun for anybody when we think about it. But the healthcare staffing industry, I believe – I don’t know if I know the exact number. But I think SIA reported that the median growth rate for travel staffing firms was like negative 37% last year. And I think this year, it’s a challenging year as well based off of what’s going on in the market. And you guys are – you’re above flat, which is winning these days. So, it’s maybe not the goals you wanted to have. But what are some of the things when you were looking at how you’re going to position CareTeam? Do you have a strategy in terms of like, “All right, this is the type of healthcare staffing we’re going to get into?” What was the thought process like?
[0:04:15] Kyle Cuviello: Well, I think probably not unlike a lot of agencies. In ’23, we were kind of riding a high of some all-time highs. And then as things started to simmer and we started to see that maybe there was something going on, we thought we could combat that because we had extra money in the bank. We could hire some more recruiters. We can get some new resources. We could kind of push past that. And that necessarily wasn’t true. So then it was a deeper dive into what are we spending our money on with resources, and try to get rid of some of the things we didn’t necessarily need. And then also, which I’m sure this happened to everyone, is once you’re done shooting fish in a barrel, you kind of see which of your recruiters actually have sales skills and which ones don’t.
We didn’t do a lot of layoffs that a lot of people did that maybe in hindsight we should have. We still really tried to work very hard with those people to see what kind of juice can we squeeze out of them? What kind of trainings can we give them? And then we just had to kind of – we had to cut ties with the ones that couldn’t perform, and then really focus all our efforts on the people that we had that were good, and then know what we were looking for when we were hiring new people past that.
[0:05:26] David Folwell: Yeah.
[0:05:28] Justin Cuviello: And to piggyback on that, I think one thing that’s a little different for us is that we came from – like legitimate sales backgrounds. It wasn’t like recruiting. And recruiting, we both came from actually having to do business-to-business sales and that kind of stuff, right? Well, and some people sales, too. And so I think we really got into sales trainings and sales tactics. And we also like that kind of stuff. It’s kind of fun and interesting.
So, podcasts, books, articles, anything that we could kind of get our hands on. I think we really try to lean into like good sales tactics. But I think one thing that we found though is that it’s really difficult to take somebody who – and again, it doesn’t mean they’re like a bad human being – with that sales drive, that competitiveness, that it’s really tough to take people that in terms of like maybe their sales drive is maybe a three and get them to like a six. It’s way easier to take people who are five, six, or sevens and get them to eight, nine, tens, right?
It’s kind of leaning into people that had a good sales – I’m not even saying that they were trained up in terms of their foundation and innate skills almost. They look like a foundation, and then really work with them and try and train them up. A lot of hands-on stuff. So, I think we kind of leaned into that first, I think, was trying to like hone sales skills. There wasn’t one right answer. There’s a lot of stuff that we had to go through, right? But that was one thing that we did was it was like cutting unnecessary spending and then really leaning into the people that were still here and trying to build up their sales skills.
[0:07:01] David Folwell: Yeah. And so really diving deep on sales, kind of taking expertise you guys have had. Do you have a more extensive sales training program? Are there sales books, classes, things that have been instrumental for you guys over the way?
[0:07:16] Kyle Cuviello: It starts with the hiring. I think that I’m sure I’ve told you this before in one of our calls. We did a University of Buffalo alumni training, extended learning thing a while back. And the one thing that stuck out to me that this guy said was everyone always hires for experience and fires on character. And it’s just so backwards, and it doesn’t make sense. So we don’t need some guy that has this extensive sales background. It’s is it the right person in the seat? We do personality assessments. We have a pretty lengthy, probably annoying interview process.
And the first step is are we putting all of our effort and time and resources into the right guy or girl? And then from there, it’s just creating the mindset around what they’re doing, because it’s very common for people, I think, in all industries where you have to do a lot of cold calls, especially in ours. Nobody wants to do the hundred phone calls to try to get one person on the phone. And it’s kind of giving them all the skills so that, yes, you have to do all those phone calls. But once you actually connect with somebody, that’s what you’re training for. Now it’s game time, right? Now you have to use all the persuasive techniques that you have to really make those calls efficient. So it’s really that right mindset of can I do all this training and find all this value in it, and then go do the grinding and the hard work? So that if I can connect, it’s up.
[0:08:35] David Folwell: Yeah, that’s great. And I know one of the – you guys have always been learners. All the conversations we’ve had, you’re always out there trying to figure out what’s next and learn about it. And the sales element seems like it’s huge. One of the things that first kind of caught me in terms of how you guys are operating differently was you have very much – it seems like you have a very “nurses-first” mentality as well. I think some of the ways that you’ve talked about the relationships and the approach to the conversations. Love if you guys could just share a little bit about how you kind of move in that direction as well.
[0:09:05] Kyle Cuviello: I think we do try to do right by the nurses. That’s for certain. You obviously need them. Also, I would say a lot of it is the recruiters, as we’re trying to grow them and develop them as salespeople. Like as an example, I know everybody probably knows someone that owns a collection agency or whatever. Not to pick on that industry, but maybe that guy makes a half million dollars a year that owns it and he manages a bunch of guys that make 40 or 50 grand. That’s not fun to us, right? We’re trying to develop where everybody succeeds. And you see this recruiter is buying a house, getting married, taking vacations, buying cars, whatever the heck they’re doing. That’s part of it. And then having them have the mindset that our clients aren’t what we call clients like the hospitals. Our clients are the nurses. We need them. We’re here to serve them. You have to just have the mindset around when you have the ones that are a pain in the butt, which they do exist. That’s not all of them, right? You need these people.
[0:09:56] Justin Cuviello: Right. It’s a win-win-win, right? It’s if we’re helping recruit, train, and support our talent in-house and teaching them to support and recruit great talent in terms of the healthcare professionals. And then you’re going to obviously then support the facilities that you’re working with, right? In this case, everybody wins. So, it’s finding unique benefits for not just our in-house people, but for the nurses, too. Making sure that we’re available within reason. Like Kyle said, we want our people here, not just recruiters, anybody here to like grow, and learn, and see that. And that’s rewarding for us.
Talking to nurses and having them say that like – we had people I think we had talked before that they left because we couldn’t pay top dollar, even though we usually pay pretty well. And then literally continue to give us referrals and come back to us. Because for the extra hundred bucks a week, you don’t have an offshore compliance person. You have an RN who still works in the acute care level one who did travel as our nurse advocate, who’s able to reach out whenever they want to.
A psychologist, we have available for more like employee wellness, not as like a lifelong therapist to help support them if they’re going through a difficult time. You know what I mean? You just want to talk to me and Kyle about something. We’ve had conversations about the industry and how it works because people are used to like Reddit and Facebook. But unfortunately, that’s not the truth of the industry. And so we try to give like a real honest, like, “Hey, listen. We understand where you’re coming from. But this is where we’re coming from, and can we meet in the middle?” You know what I mean? Because we try to be very honest and transparent process that we’re – it’s more of a partnership, you know?
[0:11:31] David Folwell: Yeah. I remember one conversation with you early on where you were talking about how you even not only are, I think, focused about being fair and honest about it, but you’re actually excited to hear when a recruiter was having conversations with somebody that’s on assignment for an hour and not just out there smiling. You want them smiling and dialing and doing the things that they need to do, but also really focus on building a relationship and knowing that the nurse is like – you’re there to support them as they move on their journey as well.
[0:11:56] Justin Cuviello: Yeah. I mean, I feel now that’s the most important thing is you have to show them that you’re working for them, that you’re there for them. That if they have any ideas, we want to hear it. You know what I mean? Because something like what’s our typical – it’s pay, potential, and purpose. Those are things that we think of for our in-house people, but that’s the same for the nurses, too. You know what I mean? I know there might not be a promotion necessarily. But if they can help us out with anything, and they feel like that they’re part of our team because they are, we want that kind of collaboration, you know.
[0:12:29] David Folwell: Yeah, absolutely. And what are some of the things that – any things that you’re open to sharing on the podcast that are kind of like unique in terms of how you’re either training or any stories that you have in terms of recruiters are kind of going above and beyond for nurses? Anything that you guys are seeing happen at your organization on that front?
[0:12:50] Justin Cuviello: Well, I think the funniest one is one of Amad’s nurses. I don’t know why she’s called the mainline. But she left a message and gave – it was a remedy for like arthritis. Not a remedy, but something for arthritis that she wanted Amad to know about because he was talking to his nurse about his grandmother and arthritis that she had. And then we’re like, “Hey, we got a message here.” You know what I mean? It’s like funny stuff like that.
Alec had a nurse send him a shark tooth, and this like – you know those like little blackboards where you have the letters that kind of like pop on? And it said, “Alec is the best recruiter.” And she sent that to him along. It’s like that kind of stuff. Because when you build that kind of relationship, that’s when it becomes fun. That’s when you have that bond then. So that if somebody does come to them with like higher pay, well, is it apples to apples? And what’s going on? Let’s have the conversation. We’re not just going to tell you no. Let’s see what’s going on. But they’re not just leaving your company. It’s the referrals that you’re getting then. We always talk about referrals, obviously. It makes it more fun, I think, for our team as well, along with the nurses, you know.
[0:13:58] David Folwell: Yeah, I think I heard you use the term like you’re like in a partnership with a nurse or something along those lines, that you’re like actually focused on how do we show up and move away from the transactional approach, which, I mean, it shows in your – we’ve done a case study on the referral side of it, and you guys have been growing that like crazy. And it looks like, I think, that’s deeply tied to the culture and the purpose that you put behind it. What are some other elements in terms of what you guys are excited about in terms of where the industry is going right now?
[0:14:28] Justin Cuviello: So the industry right now. It’s been solid, I feel like, for a little while now. I think previous –
[0:14:36] Kyle Cuviello: Historically. And this is pre-COVID, I mean, there was September, October, and then maybe January, February, there was kind of like a seasonality to it, almost. I think the thing now that it’s normalized is we’ve had really good summers. We’ve had really good any time of the year. It’s just the rates are kind of steady. There’s a ton of open jobs. It’s anytime you’re willing to put the work in and build the relationships, you can succeed right now. Usually, it was a different conversation. It was make sure you got your extensions lined up and you take your vacations in the summer. Because when fall hits, you got to be here, blah-blah-blah. Now it’s obviously not COVID, but it’s always good if you’re willing to do the work.
[0:15:15] David Folwell: Yeah. Well, and I remember you on a previous call we had had as well, you’d mentioned kind of the mentality as something that I’ve heard that differs a little bit for you guys as well. I know in the industry right now, I started this whole call with flat is the new up. And I feel like you guys have had a little bit of a – I don’t know if to call it a startup grind mindset that I feel like I always related to that. I don’t know if you could just share a little of that as well.
[0:15:40] Justin Cuviello: Yeah, I guess for us it’s we’re always moving forward. It’s always coming to a solution and not just – I use proper language. Complaining, right? And I think once we got over the shock of how crazy the industry dropped in the mid-2023, and we started kind of like planning and trying to do stuff, it was difficult for us because we’re similar in that like we always have our long-term goals of where we want to be and how we want to get there. And it’s always to kind of like strategize. You have to change and be nimble. That sometimes other people aren’t like that work for us, right?
We had to kind of like help bring people along, help them understand that that was a really insane peak and a really insane drop, but neither one of those things are normal, right? So, what do we do now? You know what I mean? Well, what do we do moving forward? Because focusing on the past does absolutely no good.
And we were talking about before, 10x is easier than 2x, that they were talking about the gap in the gain. And we’re doing that as a leadership group with us two and Alec that staying in the game. Because when you’re in that gap, you think about the should haves, and would haves, and could haves, and all the other things, it does you no good, and all you’re doing is wasting mental and emotional energy, right? I think we always kind of had that. We’ve been trying to hone that. And that we always have to keep moving forward. And every industry has their issues.
And we have a really awesome friend group and family that like a lot of them, they own businesses, or they’re higher-ups in companies, that kind of stuff. And I hear from everybody in every industry that this sucks, and this is terrible, and this happened, right? So, that’s the nature of business. But when you’re only in healthcare staffing, maybe because we didn’t come specifically from healthcare staffing when we started the business, we hear all the complaining and all the ups and the downs from people from other industries. There’s ups and downs in every industry, right?
[0:17:34] Kyle Cuviello: Yeah, everyone’s industry is the hardest, and you don’t understand. And we talk to other agencies, and we hear all the complaints of this agency is getting too big. And this resource is doing this and this. What good does this do? You’re here. This is your career. Just focus on advancing this. And you can’t worry about other excuses just because there’s like this community that empathizes, but they’ve got the same issues. Who cares? You just focus on your people, make them better, and what else are you going to do?
[0:18:06] David Folwell: Yeah. Well, and I think you guys have – you always seem to have that mindset every time I’m talking to you about how you’re approaching things. With that, maybe digging deeper into that, or if there’s other things you want to dig into as well, how are you guys thinking about investing in growth, new hires, technology, marketing? I know right now, it is a challenging market. You guys are growing not at the pace you want, which shows that drive that you guys have. But what are some of the things that you’re looking at or thinking about when you are driving the organization forward? And obviously, you just mentioned that 10x is better than 2x as like a practice. I think a lot of us, you’re reading as leaders, but it sounds like you might be implementing that as the team as well.
[0:18:43] Justin Cuviello: Yeah, I think we’re trying to work on getting out of the – I’ll sound a little cheesy here, the working in the business. And we’re working on the business, you know? And I think we tried to – we got into Locums. We started that a couple months ago. We’re focusing on trying to bring on – and this doesn’t have to have to be everybody that we bring on. But try and bring on some people that can make immediate impact. Now, they have to have the character, too. But have the right personality and character.
Now, if they do have some experience, it’s going to be a bigger investment for us up front. But now if they’re kind of taking care of business, then that’s great. So, kind of that – I’m going to sound cheesy again. But the who, not how, right? And we talked about that and Kyle a couple times. We definitely lean into that a little bit. The Locum stuff like we talked about. I guess leaning into definitely supporting our health care professionals to the best of our ability, and even leaning that into our advertising.
I think Iowa was really good with like – I feel like it was like the work hard, play hard, where when we started the company, their website still have – people are kayaking, and canoeing, and no experience. It made it where like – then we went to a couple of other companies’ websites as we were trying to learn and see what other companies do, where it looked like an image of a doctor with a clipboard. You know what I mean? But it was a nice-looking website. But I think we’re trying to lead now into – for us, the kayak and all the other stuff has already been done that our thing is – which I think is true to us. And you actually said this, was like CareTeam. And we’re kind of aptly named, which I joke around with you about that a couple times. We didn’t even think about that before. But we’re supporting the nurses. We want them to feel like they’re supported, too. No matter what’s going on in their life, whether it’s personal or at work, that we’re here to support them. Kind of leading in that, in terms of advertising, too. So, we have a couple of things going on, I guess. Sorry. I kind of went a little rant there.
[0:20:36] David Folwell: That’s great. And actually, I don’t know if you guys know this quote, but there’s Seth Godin, somebody who I followed over the years. And he has a quote I remember from like 10 years ago that is caring is a competitive advantage when done right, or something along those lines. And I have always believed that. And it’s something that so many organizations say they care, say they have service, say they deliver. But the actual quality of the delivery, how you deliver it, what that showing up looks like, I think can be a significant competitive advantage. I know you guys are kind of showing that, and it ties into your name and kind of what your core foundation is as well.
[0:21:12] Kyle Cuviello: And the recruiters, they kind of – back to what you said about seeing a recruiter talk to a nurse for an hour. We don’t want this to happen, but it naturally happens to almost every recruiter, is you get five nurses, and then you lose them all. And you get five more. And essentially, you made 10 placements, but you’re still at five. You’re not going anywhere. And you just kind of learn, it’s like if you don’t focus on that relationship, you’re never going to grow, anyways. It’s like they almost kind of have to learn for themselves that this is just as important, if not more important.
Obviously, you have to get new people because you can’t keep all of them. But then with your platform, if you keep these people – and I always say, everybody always wants to say you got to use my doctor. He’s the best. My mechanic is the best. My – is the best. You got to use them. That’s how the recruiters should want their nurses to think about them. You should be in the hospital, going, “Oh, you like that I’m traveling and I make x-money? You got to talk to my guy. There’s nobody like him.” That’s what you’re striving for. And you only get that because, Alec, the other day told me, “Hey, can you hop on Amazon and order Buffalo Bills hat for my – it’s my nurse’s son’s 11th birthday,” or something like that. They’re thinking of all these things because they’re having these meaningful conversations, and it goes a long way.
[0:22:22] David Folwell: Yeah, absolutely. And it’s also, I think, in a world where everybody’s trying to – things are shifting towards a more transactional nature in so many areas. I think it’s a unique thing to have that human element and that relationship, and to have them be focused on.
[0:22:38] Kyle Cuviello: But when you treat it that way, though, that’s how everyone ends up with the nurses that they don’t work with that just want the most money and don’t care about you anyways, is because they see it as transactional, too.
[0:22:47] David Folwell: Exactly. Exactly. It’s like everybody’s like, “Oh, wait. We don’t want the people off the job boards,” because they’re not going to – they’re just transactional. But then you apply a transactional model to it.
[0:22:57] Kyle Cuviello: Right.
[0:22:57] Justin Cuviello: Right. Exactly. Yeah. That’s actually a really great point. And it’s only too that we – in terms of our kind of continuous training, working on things like building relationships. But it’s also letting them understand the human element. And Kyle and I probably go into detail. Probably be annoying on purpose a little bit. But we’ll say like, “Okay, that nurse was kind of a pain. Okay cool. She’s divorced with two young kids, and works overnights.”
[0:23:22] David Folwell: Yeah.
[0:23:24] Justin Cuviello: And that’s the thing. When you start coming at that angle where you kind of stop taking things personally, that I think it makes – honestly, it makes everything in life easier. But I think it’s one of the biggest skills that people need to learn is that you’re not – and I think it’s from the four agreements book, whatever, you’re not the star character in like a movie. You’re the star character in your own movie but not everybody else’s, right? And if they don’t, who cares anyways? You know what I mean? But you have to stay consistent with like you’re the person that they would want to talk to, that you’re the person that’s going to be there for them, that you’re the person that they can count on, right?
And I think that also breaks down – and Kyle and I talk about this, too. That’s what also even like breaks down or wears down on the really tough individuals that are used to being transactional.
[0:24:09] David Folwell: Yeah.
[0:24:09] Justin Cuviello: Right? Because if they see consistently over time that this person gets back to this person, actually thinks about them, this person checks in on them, then at a certain point, for a lot of them, I’m not saying that they’re going to stick with you forever, and they’re not going to leave for an extra 50 bucks a week. But it votes better for you, you know?
[0:24:27] David Folwell: Yeah, absolutely. And essentially, the person who’s calling in and complaining and just expects to be fighting with somebody all the time is all of a sudden like, “Hey, these people actually do care. They’re actually paying attention and trying to show up.” I know we keep kind of going back to talking about this and different approaches. But from a systems, other processes, anything that you guys feel like have been instrumental to your growth to where you guys are at in the business over the last few years?
[0:24:57] Justin Cuviello: Staffing Referrals has worked awesome. We even had a story, which we told you before, where a guy had brought on the most referrals during a time period. We asked him what kind of things that he’s been doing so that we can share with the group. And he said, “I’ll be honest with you.” He goes, “I think as I do, I think, a solid job at building a relationship, sometimes I forget to bring up the referral part of it.” But I think having Staffing Referrals run in the background, I think, has definitely helped.
And just to give you in that one example, the previous three months to that three months, he wasn’t getting all these referrals. You know what I mean? He was like getting a couple, but you know what I mean? That’s nice to have right in the background. Although they should be asking for referrals all the time. That’s a nice piece of the puzzle. We use Monday. We love using the Monday software. It’s super easy to use, very intuitive, customizable. We use Bullhorn, too. The automations of Bullhorn, we use a lot of that. And we’re trying to build out more and more automations, make it easier for our team. Whether it’s bringing in some new leads or automating certain processes and whatnot.
[0:25:59] Kyle Cuviello: Speaking of automations, we’ve even got – and this is great that they came up with this on their own, we have account managers because they’re always not happy with the amount of submissions that they’re getting in. They have figured out how to use automations to then send out emails through our system to target certain states or whatever it is. And now they’re trying to feed recruiters. When in the past, they’re just waiting. Like, “Hey, guys. I need more submissions.” And now they’re actually trying to feed them a little bit, which is great. Everybody’s kind of got the same goal in mind.
[0:26:29] David Folwell: Oh, that’s cool. And actually, I feel like when I hear most people when they talk about Bullhorn automation or whatever marketing automation tool, they have a digital transformation person running it or the marketing person running it, and that’s kind of the only person that is hands-on. It sounds like you actually are kind of letting people get more involved on that.
[0:26:47] Kyle Cuviello: Well, we have a guy that does that kind of stuff. Most of it goes through him. But our one account manager is probably the expert out of all of us on Bullhorn. And so he just knows how to do it. And he’s with the other guy and figured it out. And now our current managers, they like, “Hey, I’ve got a lot of jobs in this state, but maybe that’s not where recruiters are actively working because there’s less redirects or whatever it is. While you guys are off doing that, I’m going to blast out emails to everyone in the state in this special place and see if I can get some leads for you, too.”
[0:27:19] David Folwell: That’s amazing.
[0:27:20] Justin Cuviello: The guy that we use is he sets up a lot of the ones for like – your normal processes is somebody hasn’t been in touch in 30 days or 60 days. Running a weekly campaign, talking about our unique benefits or something like that, right. What Kyle’s talking about is Kyle had a lot of really good talks with account managers about how do we dig up some more business? How do we really utilize the database beyond setting up some of those basic things that Bullhorn kind of helps you or suggest to kind of run in the background, right?
There’s even a text that they can use. They can use it to do text messages on behalf of the recruiters. They could set up a text campaign for a state that comes on behalf of recruiter A out to people too. Obviously, they have talked to the recruiter about it. We really have like an all-hands-on approach to kind of dig up some more business and make everybody more successful.
[0:28:09] David Folwell: That’s really great. I love that you guys are digging in on that. And I know we talked about it briefly. You brought up just for a minute earlier. But in the interviewing process, it sounds like you’re pretty rigorous with that as well. Has that been that way the whole time? Is that recent? And maybe walk through how you guys are doing the interview process.
[0:28:26] Justin Cuviello: Interviewing internal people.
[0:28:28] David Folwell: Yeah, for bringing people onto the team.
[0:28:31] Justin Cuviello: We start off with I basically tell people how hard the job can be. Because you get a lot of people who don’t understand that this type of recruiting is straight-up sales. We go – I go into it right off the bat. I mean, I do that myself. So I call all the candidates. We’re not worried if they have experience in recruiting and that kind of stuff. We’re just looking for the person, kind of like Kyle said, with like the right mindset, the right character. And then basically tell them how difficult that it can be, what the expectations are. Kind of one of those things. We love Buffalo. I actually like the snow. But you get into like February, like the end of February, and it’s still dark and kind of cold. You’re like, it’s like Monday morning and, I don’t know, your dog threw up and your car – and you had to brush your car off, everything else, and you’re driving into work, and you had two nurses canceled last week. What’s motivating you? How are you going to feel? How are you going to get over that? Right?
And it’s like, we’re looking for the person that goes, “Ah, son of a bitch. This is annoying.” And then they put on music or podcast they like, they go with their cup of coffee on the way in. They start chatting up with a couple of people and they’re like, “Okay, cool. Okay, I’m ready to roll.” Because that’s the type of person that they need.
And then once I kind of screen people, then we do a personality assessment. It kind of adds in another layer in terms of like if they’re serious, then they’re going to do the personality assessment, right? I don’t even reach back out to them if they don’t do it, even if somebody’s amazing. Because I tell them right up front, if you don’t get this by noon tomorrow, either if I call them on my personal cell or whatever it is, however they can contact me, let me know immediately. But check your spam, too. So, if they don’t respond back to that and they don’t do that, then we’re done.
Then, once we get that through, I share it with Kyle and Alec, and they go through the interviews with them. And then we do a final roleplay interview where we do like a mock scenario where they don’t have to do really like much prep, but basically they have to like – you have to get on stage and perform a little bit. And sometimes we’ll even make the remark. We have a couple of us do the review. We do the review right after they do the role play with us. Like, well, that can be a little nerve-wracking, blah-blah-blah. It’s like, “Yeah, but it was nerve-wracking for you, somebody else in the room, but you came through. And you could tell you’re a little nervous the first 10 seconds and then you pushed through. You know what I mean?” That’s what we want. And we realized that we had to get better and more stringent on the type of people that are really going to make it.
[0:30:50] David Folwell: Love all of those ideas so much. And I feel if there’s a red flag in the hiring process, it’s just going to come back to bite you later on. And I had one of my advisers told me, he’s like, “Stop pitching the dream of just working at a software company. Start letting people know how hard you’re working.” Start about letting people know this is recruiting.
[0:31:08] Kyle Cuviello: Because so many people think it’s HR recruiting. And to me, that’s someone sitting at a convention with a sign that says “#we’rehiring”, and they’re handing out pens. You know I mean? This is not that. It’s hardcore sales, right? You can kind of weed out through some of those interviews that we do. Is this person motivated by money? And regardless of they dropped their laptop in the snow and all the stuff that Justin said, it doesn’t matter. Our whole culture, we almost don’t love that people come in for interviews because our office is awesome. There’s four dogs running around. There’s a football going over your head. There’s couches. There’s all this stuff. But everybody that’s here knows how to dial it in and do their thing because they want to make money.
[0:31:51] David Folwell: I love it. I love it. And kind of shifting to the forward-looking, where do you see the healthcare staffing market in the next 12 to 24 months? Any forecast in terms of major changes, major shifts? Get back to a growth –
[0:32:06] Kyle Cuviello: We’ve seen – and Justin has shared in meetings all the SIA stats on nursing shortage coming up or maintaining, and it’s still the most in demand need and blah-blah-blah. That’s for sure. But, I mean, just at a very basic level. We’ve seen all these things, different things happen over the years. And hospitals want to pay less and change to a different vendor manager and all this stuff. And all of the possible things that happen typically result in a nurse doesn’t want to go to that hospital anymore. Then now they have more needs, right? It’s just this constant cycle of it’s not going anywhere.
And it’s been pretty strong for the last few years. The rates are still relatively high compared to COVID. Yeah. I really just don’t see – the only thing that is going to change at some point is hospital A moves to vendor manager X. You know what I mean? That stuff happens. In the past, it’s like, “Oh, this hospital only works with them or whatever.” Now that stuff flips around. And you got to do a little BD and say that you work for them and you got to get it back or whatever it is. But like as far as the shortage and the need, it’s still plentiful for everyone.
[0:33:12] Justin Cuviello: Kyle said this before. It’s such a good point. He said somebody’s going to place them. Why not you, right? And that’s the thing. So if you want to make like, “Oh, I insist.” Okay. But I don’t think their recruiters are better than our recruiters. I don’t think that they might – I’m sure they have amazing leadership, and they’re a gigantic company. But they can’t talk to two guys that have done sales their whole entire life that have dedicated their lives to this company, to sales, to business development, to all these things that are 10 feet away from them that want to help them all the time, right? You have people that care that are looking for different angles, you know. We don’t get I think a lot of things right, but we try to make them right. You know what I mean?
And I think the change thing, I think, from our perspective, things are constantly changing all the time. But it’s not overnight, usually. You know what I mean? It’s like, okay, cool. And you have to continue to kind of navigate that. I feel like if you’re constantly navigating it, then you’re not making a full right turn, you know? You’re kind of like slowly, “Okay, now we’re going over here a little bit, right?”
We do some direct hire stuff locally where we have no competition, and we do a really nice job at it just because we make cash, and we have no competition when we’re doing it. And now we’re looking into there’s possibly a direct hire. The Locums part of it. Staffing is going to be there, the needs are there. It’s just not going to be exactly the way it was a year ago or exactly it was two years ago. But in industries, what is or what was, right? You have to just stay on it.
We always think that we’re like missing something or falling short somewhere, and we’re like, “Oh my god. Okay. Well, we need to learn about this or do this.” Because if you stay on top of this stuff and always feel like you have to constantly be learning and growing, like I said, then you don’t feel like – you have to, all of a sudden, make this gigantic change in your company.
[0:34:54] David Folwell: Are there any areas specifically for CareTeam that you’re most excited about when it comes to the future?
[0:35:03] Justin Cuviello: I think the Locums and who we have doing it for us and who we might be able to bring on to help us. I think we definitely have a nice opportunity there. I know it’s getting to be a more congested market, but it’s not as congested as the travel nurse market. So, we have an opportunity there.
On the travel nurse side, I just feel like we’re always trying to learn and grow. And I feel like we get better as a company day by day. I don’t know. Like, I don’t think it’s one thing. I think the diversifying, and I think trying to take more of like me and Kyle working on the business and putting more, I guess, maybe faith and responsibilities, and some people that we bring on that we really trust to do it to help us grow.
[0:35:46] Kyle Cuviello: Anyone that’s done – I mean, the Locums thing is really exciting to us because it’s a great market and it’s new for us. Not taking the gas off the travel nurse side and still supporting those people and getting the best out of them is obviously just as important because that’s how we’re going to have a strong business as we have all of these different things that we do. But really trying to – when we read that 10x is easier than the 2x book, it’s like I’m always thinking kind of obviously how it relates to us. But I’m thinking of how we can kind of tell the recruiters, too. And that’s kind of exciting for me is to help kind of shift their mindset. I would never expect this out of them. But if your submission requirements or your new packet requirements are, let’s say, two a week, five week, whatever they are, shoot for 10 or 15.
We’re not going to require that, but you’re probably going to do something different in your day if that’s what you’re trying to do, right? So, you’re going to be more efficient. Get off the phone with the people that aren’t going to work out. Spend the extra time with the people that you think you could place. It’s like the Locums thing is cool, and that’s going to be awesome. But also, we’re getting – we’ve done this for so many years where it’s now we can kind of fine-tune all these things and get some more experienced people in here that can kind of help motivate the other people and kind of set the example. And it’s kind of seeing this after a really long 10, 11 years kind of finally get to where it’s supposed to be, you know.
[0:37:09] David Folwell: That’s great. And also, I’m having – it’s funny that we’re both just going through the 10 is easier than 2x simultaneously. You’re the first group that I’ve talked –
[0:37:18] Kyle Cuviello: If you place two people a month and you’re maintaining, that’s really good. If you’re trying to place 10 a month, that whole workflow looks totally different.
[0:37:28] Justin Cuviello: Well, and we go with the mindset. And by the way, when we talk about all these things, We’re not saying that we’re even good at any of these things. Say that these are things that we’re working on, and we’ve done a lot of learning. We’re trying to get that right. But really, it’s like we’re definitely very humble about what we have going on here.
But I think it’s how do you make a placement today? And when you start thinking like that – and we talked about in the past, when 10x is easier than 2x kind of like brought up for us again. It’s like if you work like that, then you’re going to get more placements.
[0:37:57] David Folwell: You’re going to operate differently. You’re going to make different. Yeah. I love it. And if you could give anybody advice if they were going to start a staffing agency today, what would you tell them?
[0:38:10] Justin Cuviello: Huh? That’s a great question. You didn’t prep us for that question either, so you’re just throwing this out there. I’m just kidding. I would say that nothing happens in the amount of time that you think you can make it happen in. We’re always pretty conservative. But I think even still even being conservative, there’s going to be – business doesn’t grow linearly, right? And all of a sudden, you get to, “Oh, we’re doing $2 million a year. This is amazing.” And then you do 2.2 the next year. Like, “Okay, well, that’s –” and then, all of a sudden then, you’ll do five. You have to stay with it. You have to be motivated. And you have to I think make sure that you’re letting the people around you that you support and trust, that they are a part of that, and they’re seeing that vision, too. Because it’s easy to get stuck in the daily grind.
And you have to grind. And it’s like we relate to sports. We’re very competitive. You have to go to practice. You have to block and tackle. But you also get to play in the game and make a big play, right? It’s like, yeah, you have to do some of the grinding. Kind of to help – I’m trying to put this together here since having that long-term view, making sure that everyone’s a part of it. Kind of getting excited about that once in a while. But then just remembering that you have to do the blocking the tackling. There is a little bit of that daily grind.
[0:39:32] Kyle Cuviello: Everyone that’s done well with us – and I’m not saying they did what we told them to, because our process and everything changes constantly, and we’re always evolving, they bought in, right? They understand there’s a purpose. It’s a long-term goal. Whatever we’re advising that they do comes from a place of experience. And we’ve tried x-amount of things. And everyone kind of gets it. You know what I mean? Like, “Hey, this is something I should try. They found this is important and this is going to help me succeed.” And they give it a good shot. And sometimes they come back and say, “Hey, I tried my best and it stunk, and you guys are wrong.” But it’s kind of just fully buying in.
And I guess if you’re starting a business, understanding that everyone knows some guy that sold their business for $40 million, whatever it is, and it’s like, “Oh, my god. He’s so lucky.” That guy did that for 20 to 30 years before that.
[0:40:21] David Folwell: And he was grinding. Yeah.
[0:40:24] Justin Cuviello: Grinding for probably the first 20 years, you know. It doesn’t come quick. But I think there’s a lot to kind of celebrating the small wins. Helping your team celebrate their small wins.
[0:40:36] David Folwell: Well, great answers. I got just two questions left and we’ll wrap it up. You guys read a lot of books. You’re always bringing books up as much as anybody I talk to. What book or books have you given most as a gift and or has been most impactful to you and why?
[0:40:50] Kyle Cuviello: I gifted Thanks for the Feedback a few times.
[0:40:52] Justin Cuviello: Thanks for the Feedback.
[0:40:54] David Folwell: Yeah, I don’t know that one.
[0:40:55] Kyle Cuviello: Yeah, Thanks for the Feedback. It’s pretty good. I mean, it’s really good. You kind of see both sides of it, almost, like giving feedback and accepting feedback. How to properly give it so it’s received well, but also how to not be defensive about things and accept what people are saying. It’s pretty good. I mean, all these types of books, really, if you can identify one thing you remember from it, that’s the most important part. But I’d say that was start to finish a pretty worthwhile book.
[0:41:22] David Folwell: Awesome.
[0:41:23] Justin Cuviello: Yeah, Thanks for the Feedback is a good one. Yeah, because I think that’s one that it’s good for your team, it’s good for the manager, it’s also good for the report. And it gives both sides for both of them. And it gives a different context and what somebody – and honestly, it’s good for – kind of we talk about the whole sales thing, bringing up like the nurse is divorced, has two kids, works overnights, right? It’s kind of giving that perspective. We’re big on the perspective part of it. I think it makes things a lot easier. And then it also tries to be solutions-oriented. It’s like trying to like now it’s easier to navigate, right?
Honestly, not because I think it’s because it’s a new one, but that 10x is Easier Than 2x. I’ve told everybody about it because I feel like it’s just one of those ones that like whether you read it or it’s an audiobook that I think you can get a ton out of it.
[0:42:06] Kyle Cuviello: I think that one more than any that I can remember reading in the past couple years really made me – it makes you feel bad. Kind of like, “Man, I’ve been doing everything wrong here.” All of this.
[0:42:18] Justin Cuviello: But don’t live in the gap.
[0:42:19] Kyle Cuviello: It lays out. It lays everything out that you weren’t doing. That’s how you got here. And once you even reach that new mindset, then you got to – maybe the 80% of that is wrong. And it’s just a constant evolution.
[0:42:30] David Folwell: Love it. And last question I got for you is that in the last five years, what new belief, behavior, or habit has most improved your life?
[0:42:38] Kyle Cuviello: While you’re thinking, I think one of the things that – as this could also be directed to the people starting a business, too, is when – and I’ve told you this before. When we started the business, and it was just the two of us, we did everything, right? You got to get the contracts, you got to fill the contracts, you got to do the invoicing.
[0:42:56] Justin Cuviello: I’m doing the time cards.
[0:42:57] Kyle Cuviello: Literally, everything, right? And then as you start to hire people, maybe you’re just doing some of those things. And then eventually, you get enough people and someone’s asking you for help, and you’re going to respect their time and give them help. But in the back of your head, you’re kind of thinking, “What the hell? This has taken me away from my work.” And then one day, it clicks, “Ah, this is my work now.” Now it’s like we hire all of them to do that stuff. Now it’s a completely different mindset of what your day is really for.
[0:43:27] David Folwell: That’s great.
[0:43:28] Justin Cuviello: You know what? I think coming out of COVID, now granted we wanted it to kind of dip the way it dipped, it was kind of odd. But I think it made us really think a lot more strategically. There was definitely some pain there and whatnot. But I think either it was starting a business. And I felt like I had a mortgage at the time. And we started from scratch, so we didn’t make any money. It was like I was in Fight Club. That it made me realize that like you don’t – I’m going to sound cheesy. The material things don’t matter that much. And I like cool stuff. Guitars or hockey, goalie equipment, or cars, or whatever, trucks, a house. But as long as you’re okay, and your family’s okay, and everything, you’re going to be okay. And that kind of the same thing was kind of almost reiterated, like the post-COVID thing. Okay, cool. I have to make some tough decisions. Everybody’s going to be okay. We have to put the company first in the best way possible so that we have a strong company that the people that we’re aligned with can be supported the way they want to support them.
Yeah, I think it’s that everything’s going to be okay provided that you’re doing something about it. But yeah, I don’t know. That a lot of this other stuff doesn’t matter. As long as we’re working hard, doing a lot of the right things, and supporting the people that care for us that we care for, I think you’re usually going to be okay.
[0:44:47] David Folwell: Love it. Love both concepts. Any closing comments for the audience?
[0:44:53] Justin Cuviello: Use Staffing Referrals.
[0:44:57] Kyle Cuviello: Honestly, it’s a good point because the part that he left out about that one scenario is the two top people that were using it. One of them asked for referrals in every single call, and the other one never did. And it still worked for both of them because that’s not how you should do it, obviously. But it’s good that you have all the automations coming through. And that did line up for that one guy, miraculously a good amount of referrals.
[0:45:21] David Folwell: Love it.
[0:45:24] Justin Cuviello: I would say another thing. I’d say for the business owners, it’s not feeling bad about the mistakes you made, or the things that you’ve done, or whatever was happening. You just learn from it. You take your breath, you relax, and then you start planning on how you’re going to move forward and do your best. Because like I said, between different groups we’re in and different people that we talked to, it’s easy to get kind of caught in the should haves, and would haves, and could haves, you know. Whatever happened happened. You learn from it and you just keep moving forward. And I don’t know, if you have that kind of mindset, usually things start to get better for you.
[0:45:53] David Folwell: Absolutely. Well, Justin and Kyle, really appreciate having you guys on the show. Thanks for sharing your insights. And we’ll be connected in Vegas next week, Healthcare Staffing Summit. Great seeing you guys.
[0:46:02] Justin Cuviello: Looking forward to it.
[0:46:02] Kyle Cuviello: Go Bills.
