Are you looking to re-evaluate the technology your business is using to better adapt to a post-pandemic world? On this episode of the The Staffing Show, Heather Moyer, president, CEO, and founder of HNM Systems shares her experience creating a successful utility, telecommunications, and IT staffing and consulting service as well as creating a culture of authentic, purpose-driven values within her organization.


David Folwell:
Hello, everyone and thank you again for joining us for another episode of The Staffing Show. Super excited today to be joined by Heather Moyer, who’s the president and chief executive officer of HNM Systems. Heather, why don’t you go ahead and give us a little background on HNM Systems and how you got into staffing?

Heather Moyer: Well, hi David, thanks so much for having me today. HNM Systems is a staffing and consulting company. We focus in wireless, wireline, telecommunications, utilities, and IT staffing and consulting services. So, our claim to fame is all of those towers and unique antenna systems that you see, they’re supposed to look like trees but don’t really, we do all of the staffing that supports the design, development, and implementation of those. And then, we help to make the technology work.

Folwell: That is amazing. And to give everybody a little bit of a perspective, how big is HNM Systems and what’s your growth looked like over the last few years?

Moyer: Great question. So, we have been on a pretty significant growth trajectory. This year, we’ll do about 15 to 20 million in gross revenues. We just celebrated our 10th birthday in April.

Folwell: Congrats.

Moyer: So, we are officially in double digits. We had a great celebration. Last year with a bit of a tough time, I’m not sure if you heard, but there was a global pandemic.

Folwell: Yeah. Yeah.

Moyer: So, didn’t have a ton of growth that year, but the year prior to that we were up 68% year-over-year.

Folwell: That’s amazing.

Moyer: And we anticipate having a full recovery and a growth year this year.

Folwell: That is fantastic. And it looks like you founded the company yourself?

Moyer: I did. I founded the company myself.

Folwell: What was the key moment where you decided you were going to go off on your own?

Moyer: Oh, it’s a cool story. So, when I was in college, I worked for a dotcom. It was 2001. So, the majority of the dotcoms were just disintegrating and everyone was really struggling. The company that I had joined on the other hand, was thriving. So, we were a student loan consolidation company. We were really leveraging technology and relationship and automation, which are things that I’ll probably talk a lot about today. And we were just on a major trajectory of growth and speed. And so, my senior year in college, I actually was part of their acquisition and exit. So, they sold to a financial company and eventually were going to become part of a large financial institution.

And I’m just an entrepreneur at heart, I’ve always wanted to build and create and do my own thing. So at that point, I had to look at myself and say, “Is this something that I really want to do? Maybe not.” So, somebody that I had worked with there, at that dotcom, recruited me over to join his startup staffing company that at that time was focused in automotive finance. So, we worked for all the big automotive manufacturers, but we did technology for them. So, I came over, started working in internship for that company, senior in college, working both jobs, trying to figure out who I wanted to be when I grew up, and started working for that company. Well, over a six year period, I ended up becoming the president of that organization. So, we took it from nothing…

Folwell: Wow. That’s amazing.

Moyer: Yeah. Yeah. By 26. So, we took it from, I think a couple of hundred thousand dollars to eight figures, over a six year period. Again, I ended up becoming the president. I was 26 years old. We worked nationwide. I was on four airplanes a week. I was exhausted. I had just gotten married. My husband’s a firefighter paramedic. I’m trying to figure out how I’m going to make all this work. And I got fogged into the airport at SFO and I started talking to this really smart, bright man, who was a post-grad mechanical engineer from Stanford. He actually had deployed the first outdoor wireless system here in San Diego for Sprint. At that time, it was called a macro system. Now, they’re called small cells.

And he started telling me about all things mobility, all things technology. And I had an aptitude for technology anyways, being in automotive finance. And I love people. I just think people are the most important thing. Relationships are the most important thing. And I have a really big passion and our company’s North Star is to positively impact three million lives. So, we’re talking about technology and we just chat it up for about three hours and he comes back and finds me on the airplane later and gives me his business card and says, “Well, why don’t you come have lunch with my wife and I?” And I thought, “Well, I’m not looking, but I’m killing myself, and I don’t own this company. And I’ve been promised equity a few times, but it’s not coming to fruition.”

Folwell: I know that…

Moyer: Yeah. Can anyone relate to that?

Folwell: Yeah.

Moyer: So, we ended up having lunch and we ended up talking for 12 months. I just started investigating and researching the industry, figuring out all things mobility and trying to determine whether it would be a good move for me. Eventually, of course, I did decide that it was going to be a good move for me. And as the story goes, started the business from the first floor of my town home and ate Top Ramen for about a year, at least. But it was a great start and a great opportunity. And I really saw it both as an opportunity to leverage technology. I mentioned, I’m married to a firefighter paramedic, we have two young kids, so our kids are constantly on FaceTime with daddy. As an example, he’s been out for the last 14 days in Northern California on the fire, and my kids can talk to him. The reporters are driving around in their cars with omni antennas on top of their cars.

Folwell: Wow. 

Moyer: And that’s a beautiful thing. We’re creating infrastructure so that people can stay connected. So, that’s really, really has been my passion.

Folwell: That is a great story. And it’s amazing to think that the meeting at an airport led you down this path. I mean, when I looked at your business and what you guys are doing, it seems like a very niche focus, which is great and seems to be one of the better ways to enter the staffing market. How did you get your first client? What was the process like there?

Moyer: Oh, that’s a beautiful story. So, my first customer was off of a cold call. Anybody who tells you that cold calls don’t work…they are still my customer today, 10 years later, they are the ecosystem of information, communication, technology, wireless, and wireline. And there was a man named Pedro who had been speaking about distributed antenna systems and what we needed to do to essentially upgrade infrastructure, to support the additional data usage that our economy and culture was now demanding. And I listened to something that he had shared and then I read some articles about what he was going after.

And I just picked up the phone and called him and said, “Hey, this is what I’m doing. I heard what you’ve been talking about. This is what I’m focused in. I’m going to put great, talented, wonderful human beings specifically in this industry and I think you should give me a shot.” And they said, “Okay, we’ll give you a shot. We’ll give you one order, by the way, it’s Disney World. So, if you can do that, if you can find us a unique project manager to fulfill this need, then we’ll give you a master services agreement.” So of course, I did. And then they said, “Okay, great. We need 26 more people. You got this, right?” And I was like, “Oh, yes, I got this.” Then you hang up the phone and have a mild panic attack, but you’re like, “I got this.” That’s how I run the business.

Folwell: That is incredible. And just on the other side of that, because I think it’s always interesting for those that are getting into staffing or are new to the industry, what was your process like for sourcing that talent for the next 26 hires? Were you using LinkedIn? Did you have a secret? And how has that evolved over the years?

Moyer: Oh my gosh, how hasn’t it evolved? Would be a better question.

Folwell: Yeah.

Moyer: I actually found the first resource from a referral from an industry expert. And I think that when the stakes are high, when the project is large, when it’s something like a Disneyland or a Superbowl or a university, you want to go and look for folks who have been there and done that. This is not the opportunity to create a mentorship platform, which actually I’m very passionate about and I do in a lot of other places, but you need your heavy hitters in the first go for those types of programs. So, I went into the industry, I looked for the leaders, and I picked up the phone and I called all of them. And I told them what we were doing. And I found someone that was recommended to me by them.

Folwell: Oh, that’s amazing. That’s great.

Moyer: And often, still, our number one source for staffing is referrals and we have a lot of really unique networks and programs set up to generate those referrals, but they have the longest retention rate, the highest quality rating from the customer, and tend to be the most loyal employee.

Folwell: I could not agree more. So, you’ve touched on this a little bit and saying what hasn’t changed in terms of sourcing. And I know you’ve mentioned the automation and technology, we frequently on here are talking about the digital transformation. What kind of tools or tactics has your business been adopting to adjust as everybody levels up with their digital presence?

Moyer: Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the things that was most impactful for me in this business was a few years ago, I was sitting at a keynote speakership and it was a really successful CEO. And he basically posed the question and he said, “Are you a software company?” And some folks raised their hands saying, “No, we’re not software companies.” And he said, “Okay, effectively, you’re extinct. So, if you are not currently a software company and you cannot figure out how to transition yourself to be a technology company, you’re going to be dead in the water.”

And for whatever reason, I had heard that a million times, but it really resonated with me in that moment. And so, now we are integrating as a full technology company that does staffing. And so, we use all kinds of different predictive tools. We use different AI sourcing tools, and we have a really cool integrated platform where our candidates sourcing all the way through employment is really developed, managed, and leveraged with tools.

Folwell: Are you up for sharing any of those or are they proprietary?

Moyer: Well, I can’t give away all my secrets, David, or I’m going to have to kill you.

Folwell: Fair enough. Fair enough. Fair enough. Fair enough. Thought I’d ask, just to see. I mean, it sounds like you’re adopting technology pretty rapidly and trying to adjust in that market, in that way. Do you have any specific stories on the candidate experience or things that you’ve done in the last couple of years that have had a big impact for your business?

Moyer: Yeah. Well, I think post-pandemic, we really recognized that we needed to redefine our company’s North Star. So, I mentioned earlier that as an organization, our focus is to positively impact the lives of three million people. And so, that’s great in theory, right? We’re going to positively change three million lives, but I went back to my team with the challenge and said, “We have a database of 90,000 candidates. We have these employees all over, nationwide. We have sub-suppliers, we have this reach and this network, but we really don’t have a way to gauge whether we are positively impacting the lives of these people. And so, what kind of tools and benefits and things can we provide these folks to both improve their life and then to create a metric and a tracking system and a net promoter score, so to speak, to make sure that we are having that impact?”

So, around the tools that we’ve implemented recently, we’ve recently implemented Culture Amp, which is a really cool employee engagement and performance management platform. They have the full 360 module, and it actually has a really unique platform where you can integrate a lead, develop feedback systems for your hiring managers and for your clients specifically. And so, we’ve created a whole uniquely customized operating model and a feedback loop for each customer based on what their initiatives are and what they’re trying to achieve using technology and automation, which has been really neat.

Folwell: That’s incredible. I think a lot of staffing firms are, I think, are starting to move down this path, but getting feedback in real time and from your clients and your candidates is a pretty critical thing for making sure that you’re adjusting and adapting to what people need.

Moyer: And I think where we’ve seen it most impactfully in revenue is that our retention rate is 96%…

Folwell: Oh wow.

Moyer: … in staffing. Our W2 contract is almost 96%.

Folwell: That’s amazing.

Moyer: It’s incredible.

Folwell: That is incredible. And on that, it sounds like you’re doing a lot of things differently and you just shared a little bit about that with Culture Amp. And also, you touched on how you’re going forward with a purpose-driven organization and trying to impact three million lives positively. But are there any other aspects or anything that you’d like to tell more about what your agency does differently?

Moyer: Gosh, great question. I mean, I could keep you all day to tell you the things that we do differently. I can say that most meaningfully, as we’ve developed as an organization, we are, of course, as you mentioned, purpose-driven, we are really showing up for the employee. We are only securing and agreeing to projects that are once-in-a-lifetime, so to speak. I would say, the things that we’re doing differently really start with a deep understanding of the business and that’s something that even having been in the business now for almost 18 years, that you have to go back and revisit it, and is something that I’ve done recently.

In our industry, we look at obviously, job fulfillment ratios and hit rates and the types of skill sets that you do a really good job with. But there’s this unique opportunity to look at the indicators outside of that, like job-order coverage and customer segmentation. And so, that’s where that uniquely customized operating model comes in and you really get to define who you are as a business and how you serve the customer. So, what are we doing differently? We are the very best to our people. We use technology to our advantage every single day. We use technology to their advantage every single day. We are really honest and promote a culture of full transparency. Our number one core value is relentlessly people-driven. So, we are always making the decisions with other people in mind.

And my claim to fame is I believe you have to be willing to hire, fire, and lose money to support your core values. So, if we are going to be in alignment with our core values, we have to show up that way every single day and that really has been tremendous. I think that really is a key indicator of why we have such an excellent retention rate and we’ve been able to get outside of attrition. But yeah, really the people, my team, my leadership team, my organization, the technology, being really relentlessly people-driven, and continuing to be honest with yourself and looking at the business and saying, “This is working, this isn’t working.”

I think so many times as leaders, we look at the people as the problem, the people in the organization like, “Oh, this isn’t working, it must be this manager or this group of people.” And instead, really just looking at the problem and investigating it and thinking like a rocket scientist and saying, “Am I even asking the right question? And what is my hypothesis and how can we iterate this data to get an answer that will be helpful?”

Folwell: I love the way you’re thinking about and talking about that. There’s a book that it reminds me of is, Extreme Ownership, where it’s like, it’s so frequent where something’s going wrong and it’s like, “Oh, it’s that person’s problem.” And it’s like, well, maybe if you just look at every problem in your business and think, “Well, what could I have done differently to have avoided that?” Regardless of how the other person’s showing up. And a lot of times it is a process or a system, or maybe not the right person in the right position.

But one other area that I wanted to touch on, obviously with COVID, with the pandemic, and we are potentially going back into wearing masks and at an odd state in the country right now. And I’ve talked to a lot of staffing agencies about how they’re handling remote work, if they’re going back to the office? What’s your current setup, do you have plans or know what you’re going to do in terms of the staying remote or being in the office?

Moyer: We are a very process-oriented company. So, we have a four-phase, 12-month, return-to-office program that we deployed July 1st. So right now, we have people in team groups or cohorts, so to speak, coming in and working together. It’s a really difficult thing to create and master right now because you want to be first and foremost protective of your employees and make sure that everybody is well and healthy and you don’t want to impose on other people’s rights. So, you have this really unique negotiation, much as in anything else in life, where you’re trying to stay healthy and keep the business healthy, keep your people healthy, but not trying to overreach for your employees.

So, we are back in cohorts and business units right now, that’s to a certain percent. Our next phase, we increase that percent. The following phase, we have weeks and days shifts, and then we’re going to reevaluate within next year. And I think in some ways, yes, post-pandemic and the pandemic will change the landscape. But I really believe, David, that eventually we will go back to very close to where we were before. I think, yes, we have access to different talent pools. I think employers have a different understanding of how to leverage talent, myself included. But at the end of the day, I think in a few years, we’re going to get back to culture, organization, connectivity, and togetherness, the way that it was a few years ago.

Folwell: Talking about there with staffing agencies, I know some owners are concerned about retention while having people come back to the office, because I know a lot of employees have gotten used to not going to the office. Do you see, or have you heard any feedback on that?

Moyer: Yeah. I mean, we surveyed our employees 100 times. That tool I was telling you about, and doing temperature checks and pulses. I’ve worked with a lot of our customers and a lot of my friends who are business owners of multi-million and billion-dollar organizations. And right now, my advice and approach is to listen to the voice of your employee. If your employees aren’t ready to come back, there is a level of accommodation that I would really recommend that you do, so long as you can maintain the health of the business.

Folwell: Yeah. And I hear again, from more agencies are looking for recruiters just as they are looking for talent for their clients. It seems everybody’s looking for people these days.

Moyer: We are in a post-pandemic labor deficit.

Folwell: Yes.

Moyer: We are three times our typical orders. It’s absolutely insane.

Folwell: That is wild. That’s wild. How do you see the staffing industry changing over the next three to five years?

Moyer: Well, my goal is to actually put staffing companies out of business.

Folwell: All right. Tell us more.

Moyer: Not myself, of course. Well, I think as we discussed earlier, technology is going to be a key component. Really understanding what people are looking for in the evolution of their career, but also just in the evolution of their life. If you go back and you look at the statistics of the places that employees are going to now, they are going to purpose-driven organizations. They’re not going to work somewhere, they’re going to do and to contribute to something.

So, first and foremost, I think from a staffing standpoint, you want to be really selective about the customers that you agree to support. If you’re going to agree to support folks who are just looking at their P&L and looking to put bodies in place, I think we’re going to struggle as an industry. So, really looking at those purpose-driven organizations, learning how to leverage technology and your own unique ability, right? As staffing companies, we all have a unique approach, we all have our unique abilities. Learning what those are, understanding them, communicating that vision and execution to your employees and walking that path with integrity is going to get us and keep us on the right trajectory.

Folwell: Absolutely. And with that and building a purpose-driven organization, you’ve done it and you’ve done it successfully. Could you share a little bit about the process or how you went about creating your core values and coming up with the idea of positively impacting three million lives?

Moyer: Yeah. I would love to. So, when I started the business, obviously I did my mission, vision and core values. And then in 2018, I bought out those investors that I shared with you, that I met on the airplane. And at that time, it was time for me to look at the business and say, “Who are we now?” Because we’re somebody so different than we were in 2011. And part of that is the people that I had sitting at the table with me. What is our unique ethos? What is our unique company culture? And what is it that we’re going to give back to this world, to really make impactful change? That’s what I care about.

And so, we went through a couple day, off-site, strategic session where we really dug into what we were good at, who we were as an organization and how we wanted to show up and really transparently where we lacked, right? Where we said we were one way and we weren’t. So, we redeveloped the mission and the vision and the core values, and much like all entrepreneurial companies, a lot of the core values for our organization mirror my own personal core values. I think that that is often the case, but I think you stretch when it’s in the business. I think you un-attach personally and stretch in the business.

And so, we did a two-day offsite. The leadership team had a skeleton. We came back to the organization and we played with it and we really decided who we were as an enterprise company. And that’s how we established them. And again, what we do is we are willing to hire, fire, and lose money, to support those core values. So, they’re on all employee performance reviews. Our employees have to know and understand them. We interview very specifically for them. If you’re not a core value fit, you do not work for the organization. I would love to refer you to somebody else, but you’re not going to work for me. It has to be really specific.

Folwell: Well, that all sounds great, and in fact, I think it’s interesting when you were talking about how you had to change them and had to revisit. Well, how different are they from your initial set of core values?

Moyer: They’re not really different, but they’re more mature.

Folwell: Got it. Yeah. I’ve gone through that process a few times with multiple companies, as a marketing agency, and also internally with my own businesses. And I’ve found that revisiting them every couple of years to make sure they’re in line and usually you can cut one or two and maybe nowadays I think that the big thing is, and I think it’s the right approach, is making them more authentic.

So, I think, so frequently, when you look at somebody’s website and you read their values and mission, it’s like this could be for any company. And to actually make them fit the personality and brand, it takes a lot of effort. So, that’s great that you’ve gone down that path. So, this is a little bit of an off-the-cuff question, but I was doing a little research and I saw that you are certified as an authorized tower climber and rescuer. And I just found that super interesting and wanted to know more about it.

Moyer: Yes. Well thank you for asking. That’s so funny. This question comes up all the time. I certainly don’t look like a tower climber by any stretch of the imagination. It was right after I had started the business. I aggressively went after Fortune 500 customers, right? So, I always joke that I’m a customer snob. I really am. And I went after some really big organizations. One of the organizations that I went after said, “We’ll give you this small piece of work, but it is working at height. And if your folks are working at height, you have to be able to essentially rescue them.”

Folwell: That’s amazing.

Moyer: So, I was like, “I got this.” Right? Like, okay, fine. So go out, spend like $400, all of my tower climbing gear, get my steel-toed boots, the equipment weighs more than I do. Right? I walk into this one-week long Comtrain tower rescue and safety climber course. And it’s me and a dozen military guys, and we’re going up and down and we’re climbing the tower. And then, it comes to the point where I have to rescue somebody and this poor guy looks over at the instructor and he’s like, “Her, she’s going to rescue me?” I’m like, “Yeah, buddy. I got this.” We had a lot of fun in that week and it’s a tremendous program and it definitely was an opportunity for me to overcome some anxiousness about that kind of height, but it’s a great conversation starter. And I think it speaks to my, and our organization’s willingness to do whatever it takes to serve our customer.

Folwell: That’s great. Another little bit of a different question, but if you were entering the staffing industry today, a lot of our listeners are newer to the industry, trying to figure out what’s going on, learn as much as they can. What advice do you wish you were given when you were entering the staffing industry?

Moyer: Well, I think, first as an entrepreneur, making sure that you’re asking the right questions and specifically within our industry, right? Making sure that you are really investigating what your entry strategy is, what your go-to-market strategy is. I mean, I did not have a great go-to-market strategy and obviously, it’s turned out fine for me. But, in hindsight, if I was more strategic about where I was going to enter, what states I was going to serve, which countries I was going to serve, I think I would have increased revenue and business much quicker, but I overextended myself in some ways. So, really understanding the unique offering that your business has, really getting a good handle on your go-to market strategy, making sure that you’re being really thoughtful and asking the right questions and iterating and testing a couple of the different responses.

Folwell: That’s fantastic. And I also think that it’s very common for entrepreneurs who are newer to the industry, when you’re chasing the new revenue, chasing a big client and getting off track from where you were trying to go without realizing it, it’s a very easy thing to do.

Moyer: Yes.

Folwell: So, jumping into the last set of questions, we call it the fire round. So in the last five years, what new belief, behavior, or habit has most improved your life?

Moyer: Well, I love what you said earlier about authenticity. I have done so much work over the last 18 months and really spawned obviously by COVID and really needing to understand who I was authentically and who I was as a leader. But I think authenticity for me and understanding who I am, what my unique gifts are to bring to this world, what my unique gifts are as a leader to bring to my employees, and then expanding that reach into the organization and into all of the folks that we serve, going back to our North Star, has been the most fun, interesting, impactful, challenging, and scary question and evaluation that I’ve done of myself in my whole life.

Folwell: And did you have a process, a book, were you going the Brené Brown route? What was the approach?

Moyer: So, I hired an executive coach and…

Folwell: Awesome.

Moyer: …he does this framework. He’s a neuroscientist. And he essentially teaches his executives how to rewire your neural pathways out of fear and into abundance.

Folwell: That is amazing. So, what is one of the best or most worthwhile investments you’ve ever made? It could be an investment of money, time, energy, etc.

Moyer: I’m of course, going to say the investment in myself. That is the most important investment, I believe, that we can all make and I think that that is how we serve each other and serve our community. So, by being full, truly full, you’re able to give from a place of abundance and a place of gratitude and desire instead of a place of obligation. And I think that that is where magic happens.

Folwell: I love that. What are the bad recommendations you hear in your profession or area of expertise?

Moyer: I think in business, there is a tendency to withhold information and to hide things, to be inauthentic. And I think that’s the worst type of advice that you can give somebody going into the business or an entrepreneur. Now, certainly I’m not telling you to go tell your trade secrets, but if you’re in a tough situation and you are hiding information from your client, they’re going to know, like this.

If you’re in a tough situation and you’re not going to talk to your staff and leverage the smart people that you’ve hired to help you solve the problem, they’re going to know that right away, and that breaks trust. And so, I think the old school way of thinking is hoard information, make all the decisions yourself. And I think that’s terrible advice. I do the exact opposite. “I’m struggling with this, I need to solve this problem, and I need your help.” My team is stoked on that, every single day.

Folwell: Yeah. I love that. I think the more vulnerable you are, the more buy-in you get. And also, it’s just a better way of showing up every day. It’s just a better way.

Moyer: It’s way more fun.

Folwell: It’s way more fun.

Moyer: It’s way more fun.

Folwell: It’s way more fun. What is the book or books you’ve given most as a gift and why?

Moyer: Okay, so tactically, the book that I give most often is called Predictable Revenue, and it was written by the chief sales officer of Salesforce, Aaron. And it’s just an incredible book for an entrepreneurial company, understanding how to create, generate revenue and sustainable revenue. It’s a wonderful book. So tactically, I would say that is the best book. As a leader, there are a lot of really great leadership and personal books. I would say, anything by Ryan Holiday are things that I love, really the evaluation of self and how to show up. Those are great books as well.

Folwell: We are reading the same books.

Moyer: I love it.

Folwell: I love Ryan Holiday and also Predictable Revenue. How has a failure or apparent failure set you up for later success?

Moyer: So, we’ve been talking about this in my leadership team, this week actually, we did a midyear summit and we started talking about the principle of failing forward. So, failing fast, and everybody says that, but I think organizationally, if you create the culture where that is encouraged, we go back to that book I was reading, Think Like a Rocket Scientist. You can tell your people all day long to fail, but how you respond and show up when they do, is so important. And so, I think failing fast is an incredible culture to create and celebrating success. It’s not just failure. It’s integrating that success and that failure in culture.

Folwell: It sounds like you are implementing that well, even with your communication style, talking, I heard you use the word hypothesis, I think a couple of times earlier, which shows that you’re either a lean startup person or thinking about it a little bit more scientifically and allowing the failures to be failures and move on. Last question I have is, what is an unusual habit or an absurd thing that you love?

Moyer: Great question. My goodness. Should I really tell the whole world what my absurd habits are? I am a big singer. I’m not a great one, but I sing all the time, in the shower, everywhere, dashboard drummer.

Folwell: Karaoke?

Moyer: Yes. Karaoke.

Folwell: All right. All right.

Moyer: …onlookers. It was funny, on the way back from Starbucks this morning, my eight-year-old daughter said, “Mommy, I think you should have been a professional singer.” And I thought to myself, “Well, I really love your heart. Thank you.” You might be the only one that would buy my album. I absurdly sing, and I actually absurdly sing in public and I have a good time and it makes my heart happy.

Folwell: That is wonderful. So, are there any closing comments that you would like to share with our audience?

Moyer: Yeah, I think my slogan, and this is thanks to the coach I hired that I mentioned to you, but my slogan over the last 18 months has been, “You got this.” And I say that to myself every morning, I say that to myself in every hard meeting, and I say that to my team. And it’s been really neat as they’ve shared it back with me in difficult times like, “Heather, we got this.” Basically, get out of the way. And so I guess, I’ll just leave everybody with it’s an exciting journey, stay on the path, question what you think you know, get to know your known knowns and your unknown unknowns, and you got this.

Folwell: I love that. Well, thanks so much for joining me, Heather, I really enjoyed the conversation, super insightful, and I hope you have a good one.

Moyer: Likewise, David. Thanks so much for having me.