Mohamed Basha, CEO of TLC Nursing, joins The Staffing Show to talk about his experience with creating a healthcare staffing agency. He shares the unconventional journey that led him into this industry, and also talks about his company’s focus on providing the best quality of nurses as opposed to being the largest in size. He also touches on some of the useful programs his company is using in their tech stack.
David Folwell: Hello everyone. Thank you for joining us for another episode of The Staffing Show. Today I am super excited to be joined by Mohamed Basha, who’s the CEO of TLC Nursing. Mohamed, thank you so much for being on the show today. Super excited to talk with you and hear your story. To kick things off for our audience, could you give us a little context by telling us how you got into the staffing industry and what your journey was to launching TLC Nursing?
Mohamed Basha: Thank you, David. It’s a unique story how TLC was established. So this goes back 22 years now. And I got out of high school and I grew up in Burlington, Vermont. Got out of high school, I was supposed to start engineering school at University of Vermont. Started that and quickly learned that I want to be working more with people than on a computer. So I decided to take a year off to figure out what I wanted to do. During that time, I had friends in medical school who were like, “Oh, you should go into medicine. You’d like it and you’ll do great.”
But medical school, as we all know, it’s at a minimum four plus four plus another three. So I didn’t want to do a long commitment without really knowing if that was for me. At that time I also had a friend whose mom was a nurse, and then I was also working for my dad who owned a taxi company. And funny enough, I met a travel nurse one night. We started talking because I had to bring her to a hospital in Plattsburgh and she was telling me about nursing and what goes with it. And I told her about my conundrum at that time and she was like, “Well, you should try out nursing and if you like it, then you’ll have a much better bedside manner as a doctor than any of the other doctors that you’ll be working with.” And that struck a chord so I went into nursing school, became a nurse. I’m a nurse. I’m still practicing nursing more on a managerial role than hands-on.
So I got out of nursing school and one of my older friends, a family acquaintance, his mom was in a nursing home after she fell and she was in rehab and she really wanted to go home. The rehab facility told her that, “At a minimum it’s going to take eight months of rehab to get you back home, so you’re going to be here for at least eight months.” And she was just devastated and she was really depressed and everything else that goes with it when someone wants to be home and not want to be in that facility. The friend called me up and said, “Hey, I know you just got out of nursing school. My mom would really use extra help and she really wants to be home and see what you can do.” So I go in and I started helping her. I actually started going in twice a day and we were doing intense physical therapy to get her strong so she can go home.
While I was in the nursing home facility working with, her name was Sally, and rehabbing her I found that the nursing home was always short-staffed. Couldn’t find aids when they needed aids, couldn’t find a nurse when she needed a PRN medication. So it just got me thinking. I was like, “Wow, they’re quite short-staffed.” And they need the help, but there was no other resource in this area at the time that could readily help them.
So as part of Sally, taking her home, it ended up being that she wanted me to continue on with her. So that’s how TLC got started is with this one patient needing care and wanting to be home and also seeing a need in a facility that was constantly short-staffed. So I started TLC in ’06. TLC Nursing and TLC HomeCare, two separate divisions in 2006. It was supposed to be a short-term thing. I was supposed to do it for….
Folwell: It’s a side project.
Basha: It was supposed to be a couple of years. My goal was to save up some money so I can go back to medical school. At that time, the goal was medical school and how do we pay for it without walking out with $300 to $400,000 in debt. So the goal was to save some money and launch this, and this will be on autopilot and I can go back to school. And that obviously didn’t happen. 18 years later, here we are sitting and talking about TLC and the journey that we’ve gone through. And it’s been an interesting journey. A really interesting journey.
Folwell: Yeah. I was going to say, you’ve been through…is this the third market shift?
Oh, yeah. It’s funny, a lot of the agencies that you see today are relatively new, last three to five years. When I started in ’06, we were just going into the recession and I saw how a lot of these small mom and pop agencies were disappearing like that. It was scary to some extent, but it also was that we saw larger agencies like AMN and Cross Country, they were buying up all these smaller agencies to shore up their market share. So it was an interesting time. But at that time we were so hyper focused on just the local market, the Vermont market, that it really helped us survive and thrive just being laser focused on the client we wanted to serve and the market that we wanted to serve.
But our story is also quite different as in we did not come out being like we wanted to be the largest staffing agency. We were more focused on providing the best quality of nurses and also an agency that was really built on relationships. So in ’06 to 2011, I was working as a nurse as part of TLC. I was the guy that showed up to shift when somebody called out. One of our nurses called out. I still tell the story. Back, I think it was ’09, I was working at a facility in Vermont and I was working a night shift that day. It was one of those things where I was working as a nurse just to have the revenue come in because we didn’t have any seed money. The seed money all came from me working to raise the capital to build the business.
So when we started, it was just me doing everything and working God knows how many hours a week or day. I remember it was long, long days. And then we slowly started hiring staff and as we grew ’08, ’09, I think we had maybe 40 to 50 employees at the time, and we were slowly growing. And it was also because of the capital constraints and capital. We didn’t have any seed money or any outside money that came in to build this business. It was all, as they say, sweat, blood, and tears. That’s how TLC was built. That’s what it was built on.
And going back…sorry, I sidetracked. Going back to those long days, I worked in a facility where I was working a night shift. We had a snowstorm. So because of the snowstorm, the morning shift person wasn’t able to get in because they were completely blocked out. So I had to continue working the day shift, which was the facility I was working at was 12-hour shifts. So I worked a 12, 7:00 PM to 7:00 AM. The day shift person couldn’t come in, so I had to continue working from 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM and the night shift person got sick and she couldn’t come in. And it was a small facility so they didn’t have very many staff so I ended up working…was it 36 hours? So it was three, seven to seven, seven to seven, and seven to seven. So the next day came in and I was a zombie. I just couldn’t even move. It was intense. And that wasn’t the only time. We had multiple times like that. But it helped me build as a nurse and helped me see how things can go badly for nurses. So we were really always cognizant of making sure that we put our nurses and their wellbeing first and making sure that wherever they’re working, there’s always support to make sure that they’re not left in a condition like I was left.
Folwell: That’s crazy. And one of the questions I was going to ask you is what makes TLC different? And I think you’ve answered one core component of that is I feel like your hands-on experience as a nurse, understanding what nurses go through, and it sounds like you’re very focused on the relationship. But are there any other attributes or differentiators that you see in terms of how you go to market or how you approach your business?
Basha: On a client side, it’s always about relationships. One of the things that I’m proud of is that we have had relationships with facilities for 18 years, since day one. And they still love us and still continue to use us because of our quality and also being honest with our clients. Because that’s one of the things that I found always worked well is when we promise something, we always under promise and over deliver. And that’s a formula that has worked for us and that’s something that we’ll continue to do because it’s easy to over promise but at the end of the day, we’re dealing with human beings on both sides. Patients are human beings that need the proper care and then our staff who are also human beings that need to be supported correctly. And so it’s making sure that everybody has all the tools that they need and also are prepared correctly going in.
Folwell: That’s really great. And what’s the size of your organization today? How big have you gotten from a team perspective and what does the future look like for TLC?
Basha: Absolutely. So our internal team consists of, right now we’re at 85 staff. That’s our internal team from your payroll, to billing, to your recruiters, to assistants, to executives. So we’re at 85. We’re hoping to be at 100. We’re hiring 15 more recruiters in our Omaha office for January and we’re shooting for 15 more for February. We just have to see what applicants we get and make sure that they’re the right fit for us. It’s all about relationship building. It’s relationship, relationship, relationship. That’s what it all comes down to and we want to make sure that we have the right people that understand that.
One of the things that’s unique with TLC is that traditionally speaking, our job is called headhunting, right? Staffing is basically headhunting, finding people, and bringing them on and placing them for a position. But we take a different approach. Our mission is to cultivate relationships. So we are more of a cultivator. So we see ourselves more like farmers where you plant a seed, you nourish the seed and then you’re able to get a larger crop that can sustain and can keep you going in the long run. So it’s a different approach from most agencies.
Folwell: It really sounds like you have a good growth trajectory too with the new hires, especially during this time. I know it’s been a challenging year for some. You mentioned the Omaha office. You mind if I dig a little bit into just….
Folwell: Did you open an Omaha office? What was the decision behind that? I know Omaha is the Silicon Valley of healthcare staffing.
Basha: We’re in South Burlington, Vermont. At one point there used to be more cows in Vermont than people.
Folwell: I’m from Iowa and we got more pigs than people. I think three or four to one.
Basha: Exactly. Exactly. In Vermont, our population is 600,000 people so we’re tiny. And finding the right talent has always been the challenge and it was what was holding us back in scaling the organization. So that was always one of the things that really stopped us from growing to where we want to be. So in 2021 where the market just skyrocketed and pulling into ’22 where the needs were crazy high, we just were like, “God, we wish we had another 20 recruiters we could hire.” And we did anything and everything we could do and we just weren’t finding quality people in this area. I’m more of a person that if I’m asking my nurses to go work in a facility and they need to be taking care of people that have COVID or have other communicable diseases, but I want to be working from home, I don’t think that’s fair.
And also there’s a lot of moving parts when it comes to the work that we do. So we believe in a team approach and a team setting. So that’s why we didn’t venture into hiring people that wanted to do work from home. And it may work great for other agencies, but for us and the way we work, it’s more a team approach and it’s teamwork. So we needed people in the office working as a team. So we were one day just spitballing, what else can we do differently? And one of the things that flurried out, I was like, “Well, I think we need to be in Omaha because every time we talk about an agency it’s always Omaha, Omaha, Omaha.” And we were just spitballing ideas of how do we break out of this challenge of not being able to get the right people to continue to grow.
So we said, all right. So we did market research and found out that it is the mecca for travel staffing and recruiters. And Omaha historically speaking has always been this place where all the marketing companies and telecom companies had their call centers. AT&T had a call center there, I believe American Express had a call center there and even today, Marriott still has their call center there. So it’s a place where people understand relationships and people understand how to build those relationships on the phone and virtually. So we decided that that’s where we need to be to continue to grow so we opened an office and started growing our team there.
Folwell: That’s great and makes a lot of sense and it’s amazing how many…I don’t know the actual concentration, but it really does feel like the Silicon Valley of healthcare staffing.
Basha: I tell people in a 20-mile radius, if you go around from our office, there’s something like 50 staffing agencies just in a 20-mile radius from where we are. We go in and we were looking for office spaces. We would tell people, “Oh, we’re a travel nursing company.” They’re like, “Oh yeah, there’s tons of you guys here. I get it. It’s a growing industry. Here’s some office space to look at.” So it’s well known for it and we have been lucky enough to find some really great team members that are part of this team and helping us grow.
Folwell: That’s really great. And shifting subjects a little bit, what are some of the challenges that you face this year that you see coming downstream in the next six months to a year? What are the obstacles that you’re seeing today?
Basha: The amount of openings or amount of open jobs. Last year we couldn’t keep up. For every 10 openings we could only find one person to fill it. We could only find one talent for every 10 openings we had. Today that has shifted where we have 10 people for one open position. So it’s a drastic shift in the market, but it’s also because the demand is not the same as what it was during COVID. So I think it’s going to soften where we’re going, but the need is always going to be there. It’s how you approach that need and how you placate to your client on how to fill those needs.
Folwell: It sounds like just from coming off the Healthcare Staffing Summit, rates were exorbitantly high and now we’re leveling out, which is also a challenge. I think what I’m hearing is that getting nurses to take roles at the new rate when they’re used to something that has changed pretty drastically from a couple customers that it’s used to submit for every two, you get one placement and now it’s six, 10. It’s changed. A lot more submittals to get that over the line as well. Looking forward, do you think 2024… are you optimistic in terms of seeing growth or what do you think the market will pan out?
Basha: I’m more realistic than optimistic. What I’m seeing, or at least what…I always refer to Alan from Aya Healthcare. They have all the resources to….
Folwell: All the data.
Basha: Yeah. What the future looks like. So my money is on what he and his team foresee the future, which is going to be a flat year for ’24. And if we can continue to have similar placements as we do today going into ’24 and maintain that and maintain those relationships and bring in some new relationships, I would call that a win.
Folwell: I think that’s fair to trust his data. I think he has a pretty good handle on the pulse of the industry.
Folwell: He’s got enough data in the system. You’ve been in the industry for quite a while and we’ve talked a little bit about having some of the ups and downs and some of the experiences you’ve had. What are some of the main changes in terms of how healthcare staffing operates and how your organization operates that you’ve seen over the last, I guess 18 years that you’ve had TLC?
Basha: It’s been a big difference today. What used to be a niche where there were less than 100 agencies that focused on travel nursing and was unique to placements and unique to how things were done, to agencies that just popped up left and right and agencies that were not even in healthcare. They don’t even understand healthcare. Most of them are IT companies that think like, “Oh, we can just add this on and add additional revenue to our bottom line.” And unfortunately it doesn’t work like that. Being a nurse and being in healthcare, the agencies that are out there, the ones that will succeed and will survive really understand that it’s more than about the bottom line and it’s about taking care of people and making a difference in people’s lives. Those are the ones that I think will continue to thrive and survive compared to a lot of the new agencies that came in in the last couple of years that are just focused on the bottom line.
Folwell: I think there’s a huge…I don’t know the actual data on this. I would love to know how many new entrants were there were when pay rates were $200 an hour, $150 an hour.
Basha: They were huge. I do market research once a week. My market research just involves us looking at all the postings of open positions by various agencies. And some of these agencies, we look at the name and I’m like, “Who is this?” You go on their website, they have nothing to do with healthcare but….
Folwell: They all jumped in.
Basha: They’re recruiting for it. And I think one of the things that we will see in ’24 is some of those agencies will just go back to their core business and stick to it. And the ones that specialize in healthcare and understand healthcare, I think they will survive and thrive.
Folwell: I’ve actually seen…and you and I talked about this just briefly, but I think in the industry right now, a lot of agencies are going back to the core business and going back to the areas that they do specialize. There’s also staffing firms who are broadening at the same time. But there are definitely some that, “We went out and tried that and it’s not going as planned and let’s go back to the core of what we know,” depending on the vertical and obviously the niche that you’re in as well. One thing that I also know that you’re an early adopter on…I don’t even know if I’d call it early adopter, but you’re definitely a tech-forward agency. Could you tell me a little bit about how technology played a role in the growth of your agency?
Basha: Absolutely. One of the things besides being in Vermont and not having the staff is also not having the right tool. And when you’re running a business and when you have certain tools that you use for over 10 years, you get complacent and get accustomed to it and change. Anytime you try to implement something that’s new and your team is just not ready to take on a change, it’s harder. But I will say in 2020 we decided that we had to do something drastically different in order to be successful in the marketplace because we started seeing more of the app-based organizations coming in and taking a market share, but that was more on the per diem side. But then you start seeing the travel side also started doing a lot more app-based and also we as a society are more comfortable dealing via an app or text message than on a phone or having these face-to-face meetings. So that’s when we decided that we really have to do something drastically different.
And we’re not a big agency that could go out and build our own custom software. But we started looking at various providers and did our research and talked to as many agencies as we could trying to find out what worked for them, what didn’t work. And we decided to go with, we use LaborEdge for our system of records for our ATS, and then we use every product that LaborEdge has to offer, including the app. One of the things that came with LaborEdge was these integrations with other providers and the ones that we took advantage of immediately was one was Sense. And people who don’t know Sense they should go look it up because it’s one of the greatest products out there that you can use to build relationships.
Again, I go back to the relationship because that’s our mission and it’s been a great tool in helping us improve the way we build those relationships with both our clients and our employees. And then last but not least is Staffing Referrals. Because one of the things that has always been a challenge for us always has been maintaining and tracking the referral source. We had a good program for referral source and managing it, but it was very time-consuming and very labor-intensive. And when you’re doing everything manual, things are going to get missed and you’re going to make mistakes and that’s what happened multiple times. So when we were able to integrate Staffing Referrals to what we’re doing, it was a no-brainer. I was like, “Let’s get it.” And it’s been a huge help for my payroll team because this is so automated now that all they have to do is verify hours and they push it out. So it’s great.
Folwell: I appreciate the kind words. And also thanks for sharing a little bit on the tech stack. And I was just looking at your app, so that’s powered by LaborEdge as well?
Basha: Yeah. So our app, it’s called iTraveler. We’re trying to build another line of business that’s more app-based and we’re trying it out, seeing how it goes. And we’re in the early stages of implementation and starting a new line of business and it’ll be called iTraveler, which is 100% app-based.
Folwell: And is that going to be focused on the per diem market or is it going to be broader across all of the healthcare vertical?
Basha: It’s going to be across. We’re focusing on a couple of niches right now. One of the challenges in our industry is the CNA market. There’s just not much margins in that, but the demand is there and it’s such a high need. So it’s a volume-based business and for most agencies, including ours, it just doesn’t make sense to make $3 to $4 an hour when your cost is just not going to be able to keep up with what your net margins are. So we’re trying iTraveler, our app, for our CNA side and seeing how that works. We’re still in the early phases, so I really cannot tell you whether it’s working or not. But we have a process that we created that is going to automate most of the communication and how we work with our talent on that side and see how it goes.
Folwell: Oh, that’s really great. And it sounds like the tech adoption so far has been impactful for you with the three platforms.
Basha: Absolutely. One of the things it also did to us is it also showed us that…I attended SIA not last year, the year before and was that if you’re not adapting the tech stacks or building your own tech stacks, you just have to be able to have those tools for your team to be successful. And the more tools you have, the better your product is going to be. Because you can refine your product by having the right tools. If you’re a carpenter, all you have is a hammer, you’re not going to be able to build much, but if you have all the tools that a carpenter needs, you can pretty much build anything you want. So that’s the same approach we take. So we want to make sure that our team gets all the tools. And one of the things that we did this year is we hired our own developer, but the focus is more on some of the challenges. Even though we have multiple tech stacks, how do we bring it all together? Not everybody likes to play well with everybody else, so we’re building our own bridge on stacks that don’t talk to each other or don’t like talking to each other. We’re building our own internal bridges.
Folwell: Are you using different applicant tracking systems for the different divisions?
Basha: Yeah. We use multiple ATSs. The challenge with that is ATSs don’t like to talk to other ATSs, so that’s where our developer comes in, where he’s developing…already has built-in bridges. In the past we outsourced that job because we’ve been developing our own software stack that did particular processes. One of the things that we wanted to do, cut back…this is in ’16, ’17, is that we wanted to, the amount of time it took someone to go through and do a background check on a candidate. It was taking a compliance person 15 to 20 minutes just to go through and do one person because it was all manually inputted in and going through each site and doing it all. We developed our own dashboard where the compliance person just puts it in once and it does all the background checks, everything that’s needed in less than a minute, and then it uploads it to the candidate profile. That’s just one of the examples. We also did other examples in making the application process faster, because a lot of times it’s the same data that a candidate has to re-enter multiple times in an application process. So we created a software that they just put in their demographics once and it just fills it out everywhere else for them. So those are just some of the tools that we created beforehand.
Folwell: That makes complete sense. I think the tech stack has been pretty impactful for you, and I think one of the things I hear consistently, and it sounds like you’re on this path, is how do we make it easier for the traveler, for the nurse, whatever role it may be, but create a simpler, more consumer-like experience so that they actually want to continue working with you and the easier you make it, the higher likelihood that you’re going to continue to work with them.
Basha: Exactly. We always tend to take the path of least resistance. That’s just who we are and what we do. So we have to make things easy for our travelers and also our team so that they can spend their time in the most effective way possible.
Folwell: Absolutely. We’re going to shift gears here to the last question then we’ll jump into the speed questions. But one of the things that you brought up early on in the conversation was focus on client relationships and the focus on the quality of the talent that you’re providing to your clients. What are some of the measures, processes? How do you make sure that you are delivering high-quality talent in a way that others are not?
Basha: One of the things we do…again, we use Sense for this. On a candidate level, we do a first day check-in with our client. Rating that candidate on the first day, their first impression. Do a 7-day check-in, a 10-day and a 30-day check in. And one of the things that we also do is anybody that gets all 10s, we send them a gift card for being an ambassador for TLC because we want to be able to provide the best staff possible to our clients and also be able to acknowledge the people that are doing an amazing job. So when we go in and if any of them are getting seven or below, our client relationship team is calling the facility, finding out what’s happening, what the issue was and how do we rectify it. We also make sure that we get as much information as possible before a candidate goes up to a facility so that we can inform the candidate and let them know what to expect, what the culture is and what the expectations are and the do’s and don’ts of the facility.
So we try to do that as much as possible. But one of the challenges, again, this is across the board, is that you can only give a traveler so much information. After that everything becomes just pure noise. You can give them a 30-page handbook on “this is what the facility wants you to do” and most nurses that I know will not take the time to read through the 30 pages. So we try to make it as simple as possible, giving them the highlights and letting them know that, “Hey, these are the critical aspects that you need to be aware of and you need to be focused on.”
Folwell: Absolutely. That’s really smart and also makes sense on the…it’s cool that you guys are doing the check-in, so it sounds like on both fronts, making sure that they’re happy, making sure you’re communicating clearly about the culture fit, values-based hiring.
Basha: And the same thing happens on the candidate side too. So the candidate gets a check-in on day one, day seven, day 10, day 14, just rating how their week has been and what help they need, any assistance they need. And the minute we have alerts if the rating falls below a certain point, then we’re reaching out to them immediately and saying, “Hey, you just rated the facility X. What’s going on? How do we fix this?” And sometimes it’s just not a good match. People are people, so sometimes even though we go through and do all the work, sometimes they’re just not a good match. So we try to assist the candidate and make sure that we can take them out of there and put them in a different facility that might work well for them and works well with their personality.
Folwell: That’s really great. You’re doing the automated touch base for a score basically on both the client side and the candidate side to make sure that if there’s any drops, your team is on it, making adjustments and improving that. Continuous improvement.
Basha: Exactly. And at the end of the day, TLC is built on the people and it’s the people that are here day in and day out, and it’s my team that pretty much makes everything happen. I’m just, as they call it, the eye candy of TLC.
Folwell: I like that.
Basha: With all seriousness, it’s the team and I’m extremely lucky to have some of the best people who are dedicated and mission-driven in making sure that we’re providing the best candidates who can provide the best care.
Folwell: I absolutely love that. And with that, we’re going to jump into the last set of questions and the speed questions. So what advice do you wish you were given before entering the staffing industry?
Basha: It has evolved so much in the last 18 years that back then if….
Folwell: Oh yeah, I guess before it was 22 years. How about if you were entering the staffing industry today, what advice do you wish you had?
Basha: Be ready for change and constantly change. If you’re not comfortable with change and adaptability you are in the wrong place. You have to constantly evolve and adapt. And that’s one of the things that we do that has helped us continue to stay on and be an agency for 18 years is that we’re constantly evolving and constantly changing. That includes our process, how we do things, and we also have an approach where anybody in the organization can say, “Hey, I don’t think this works well. Can we try it this way?” And we do it. Because at the end of the day, as senior leadership or even managers, we can have an ideal way of how things should be done, but at the end of the day, the people who are doing the process, if they’re not successful and they can find inefficiencies, we need to listen to them and change.
Folwell: Absolutely. And in the last five years, what new belief, behavior or habit has most improved your life?
Basha: Spending more time with my family. I’m a workaholic, so I used to work, even on the weekends, I would be in the office doing something. But in the last five years with COVID and everything else, I’ve really scaled back to where I’m making sure that I’m spending more time with my family and making sure that I’m present with them. Because that’s the other challenge is when you’re running an agency or any business, that is a lot of times my wife tells me that, she tells everybody this, that TLC is my firstborn. She used to complain that I used to put TLC before the family. And so I had to adjust and change and be able to really focus on them and spend time with them before the business.
Folwell: I second that. And having a business, that’s an experience I think many of us face, or challenge many of us face. So what is one of the best or most worthwhile investments you’ve ever made? Could be an investment of money, time, energy, et cetera.
Basha: Investment ever made. I did a few leadership training programs. This is in 2010, ’11, ’12. I did two, three different programs over the years. Those were really helpful. Especially coming from a non-business background and being a nurse.
It’s funny, last year I was talking to a banker investment firm, and was chatting with them and they were like, “Most nurses who own agencies, they don’t get big. They don’t expand, they don’t grow.” He was like, “How were you able to break out of that behavior?” And I said, “I was lucky enough to be able to do trainings that helped me grow as a business person and also investing in my team and investing with the people that are around me.” One of the things that I’m proud of is that as a leader, I feel that it’s my responsibility to push the people that are with me to the uncomfortable zone so that they learn and they grow. People that have been part of this organization, many people have left, had gone out to start their own businesses or gone out to work in a higher capacity than what they were doing so I’m proud of that. I was able to give people the tools and the ability to be able to go do that. Take those risks.
Folwell: That’s incredible. I very much enjoyed having you on the podcast today. Do you have any closing thoughts that you’d like to share with the audience?
Basha: Stay focused on your team and stay focused on the people, because at the end of the day, without them, we’re nobody. So just making sure that we’re putting them and taking care of them.
Folwell: Well, thanks so much, Mohamed. I really enjoyed the conversation. I hope you have a great day.
Basha: Thank you, David.